From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Sun Mar 1 01:10:02 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Sat Feb 28 23:57:37 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism Message-ID: <27091824.1235887802597.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Interesting chain, all. While I agree with Swift that we're seeing something that was predictable a while ago finally beginning to pick up speed, the demise of newsprint operations is not inevitable. What's long been necessary is reinvention at two levels -- newspapers should have moved online early and charged (WSJ and Consumer Reports have both been successful at this, and Newsday has announced that its going to try -- I'll look for the link I saw) and differentiation between the online and print products. One model would be online as realm of the breaking news and searchable databases (this is where the role in the community/state/region gets fulfilled -- searchable archives of obits, local sports data, the restaurant poll info someone in this chain proposed, you name it. Be a searchable resource for readers.) Then you've got web as 3 things: breaking news source, online community, powerful tool. In contrast, your print edition should play the analytical role that's often sorely lacking -- give readers pages, not inches, that tear apart in detail county budget proposals. Your circ will be smaller, but it will be loyal, and it will be a defined, educated, high-income niche that your ad dept. can attract advertisers with. And it will only partially overlap with the online subscriber base. Cleverly use some content from each vehicle in the other, to expose readers to what goes on in both places, and you will see joint subscriber ship climb, not one cannibalizing the other. That's a drastically oversimplified - and admittedly easier said than done - version of how 70-plus-year-old Consumer Reports magazine (circ approx. 4 million) built consumerreports.org into a paid subscription website with 2.7 million subscribers. (Yes, I spent six years there, managing the communications department. Started out with seven years in weekly/daily papers.) I hope I've provided some optimism on what is a sad day for those of us who love print. But it is possible to perhaps lose entirely or completely transform the media vehicle (daily paper) and reinvent the news organization that used to produce it to produce another vehicle for delivery of quality journalism. There's an old saying that I won't get exactly right, but its basically that the horse-buggy companies didn't survive the change to automobiles because they saw themselves as in the horse-buggy business, not the personal transportation business. That applies well to newspapers today. best wishes, Gene Lomoriello class of '89 -----Original Message----- >From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >Sent: Feb 28, 2009 10:35 PM >To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism > >I recall Denny telling the story of covering a sporting event for his >employer where the reporters for the dailies were laughing at him for >working for a Web-based media organization. I'm guessing they aren't >laughing now. > >Murphy > >> Swift speaks the truth. Per always. >> >> I'll also add that when I graduated nine years ago, I always assumed I >> would >> eventually wind up at a newspaper. Instead, due to various circumstances, >> I >> sort of backed into the Internet business, not even knowing HTML at the >> time >> (internet courses weren''t a required part of the English-Print Journalism >> major when I went to Plattsburgh). At first, I felt like I needed to work >> at >> a newspaper to validate that I was, in fact, doing something with my >> degree. >> >> >> But the longer I stayed at CBSSports.com, the more I noticed the flood of >> experienced newspaper writers, editors, etc. taking Internet jobs with our >> company and with our competitors. These were people with years of >> experience >> at very prominent broadsheets. Mike Coulter, if you're on this list, you >> can >> probably back me up on this. >> >> Eight years ago, there were times when I seriously second-guessed myself >> for >> not pursuing an entry-level newspaper job harder, and for sticking with >> the >> Internet instead. Today, I feel the opposite. I feel like I unwittingly >> got >> my foot in the door, ahead of what I expect will be a flood of very >> qualified former newspaper employees, who will just now be switching >> career >> paths. >> >> Don't get me wrong. The Internet hasn't been immune to the recession >> either. >> But as someone at our office recently put it, people are used to getting >> their information on the Internet now, and news generally hits the >> Internet >> very quickly. Newspapers, due to the turnaround time and the process >> involved in producing a daily, are essentially printing yesterday's news. >> And charging you to read it. The more people get used to super-fast news >> delivery on the Internet, the more ridiculous that business model sounds. >> >> Denny Burkholder '00 >> >> >> >> On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM, >> wrote: >> >>> >>> AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I >>> happened >>> to go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to write >>> about sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?! >>> >>> That said, it's going to have to become more of a service industry, and >>> there has to be serious marketing efforts (the days of people picking up >>> a >>> paper because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by providing a >>> service >>> (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff like: >>> >>> - Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our >>> financial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the >>> luckiest >>> C- I ever got. >>> >>> - How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area's >>> restaurants and service providers to alert readers to the most >>> cost-effective options? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC. >>> >>> - If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to hear >>> themselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate is >>> crucial these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian >>> in >>> England has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called >>> "minute-by-minute reports". The blogger goes over the highlights (with >>> added >>> snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from >>> readers >>> during the game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the game (why >>> would you want to wait until the end to see the result?). >>> >>> Example: >>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live >>> >>> Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games >>> as >>> well - http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236 >>> >>> If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I would >>> absolutely read it. >>> >>> Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry can't >>> come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard. >>> >>> - Swift >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Journalism-alumni mailing list >>> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >>> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Journalism-alumni mailing list >> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni >> > > >Shawn W. Murphy >Associate Professor of Journalism >Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points >Chair, Department of Journalism >Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism >103-A Yokum Hall >SUNY Plattsburgh >101 Broad St. >Plattsburgh, NY 12901 >518-564-2422, phone >518-564-2105, fax >shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu > > >_______________________________________________ >Journalism-alumni mailing list >Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Sun Mar 1 10:10:15 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Sun Mar 1 08:57:49 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism In-Reply-To: <3524.68.191.10.12.1235878527.squirrel@webmail.plattsburgh.edu> References: <012101c999d8$8a74b5e0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <66baef7f0902281713i2cb1cf8v6371a8249dc04470@mail.gmail.com> <3524.68.191.10.12.1235878527.squirrel@webmail.plattsburgh.edu> Message-ID: <66baef7f0903010710r1d037b8eqb357092f8909ba0e@mail.gmail.com> Murphy, that's correct, and it was less than two years ago. It would have been more understandable in 2001, but in 2007, I think it was a bit of an antiquated sentiment. This experienced broadsheet reporter walked up and down the press row, checking out the seating assignments to see which publications were there. After figuring out she was one of the few newspaper reporters among a bunch of Internet reporters, she said out loud, "Aren't there any REAL reporters here?" I was lucky enough to be seated right beside her for the event, so I got to hear her bonus rant afterward, a half-hour-long diatribe about how this apparently wasn't an event worth her time and how she could be home watching *Law & Order* right now. She's a good reporter -- still on the job, in fact. She's just one of those old-timey newspaper elitists. She refuses to accept that anyone with true skill or education might choose to work anywhere but a daily. I wish her luck in a couple years (or months?) when she's interviewing for a job in front of many of the reporters she offended that night. Denny On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 10:35 PM, wrote: > I recall Denny telling the story of covering a sporting event for his > employer where the reporters for the dailies were laughing at him for > working for a Web-based media organization. I'm guessing they aren't > laughing now. > > Murphy > > > Swift speaks the truth. Per always. > > > > I'll also add that when I graduated nine years ago, I always assumed I > > would > > eventually wind up at a newspaper. Instead, due to various circumstances, > > I > > sort of backed into the Internet business, not even knowing HTML at the > > time > > (internet courses weren''t a required part of the English-Print > Journalism > > major when I went to Plattsburgh). At first, I felt like I needed to work > > at > > a newspaper to validate that I was, in fact, doing something with my > > degree. > > > > > > But the longer I stayed at CBSSports.com, the more I noticed the flood of > > experienced newspaper writers, editors, etc. taking Internet jobs with > our > > company and with our competitors. These were people with years of > > experience > > at very prominent broadsheets. Mike Coulter, if you're on this list, you > > can > > probably back me up on this. > > > > Eight years ago, there were times when I seriously second-guessed myself > > for > > not pursuing an entry-level newspaper job harder, and for sticking with > > the > > Internet instead. Today, I feel the opposite. I feel like I unwittingly > > got > > my foot in the door, ahead of what I expect will be a flood of very > > qualified former newspaper employees, who will just now be switching > > career > > paths. > > > > Don't get me wrong. The Internet hasn't been immune to the recession > > either. > > But as someone at our office recently put it, people are used to getting > > their information on the Internet now, and news generally hits the > > Internet > > very quickly. Newspapers, due to the turnaround time and the process > > involved in producing a daily, are essentially printing yesterday's news. > > And charging you to read it. The more people get used to super-fast news > > delivery on the Internet, the more ridiculous that business model sounds. > > > > Denny Burkholder '00 > > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM, > > wrote: > > > >> > >> AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I > >> happened > >> to go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to write > >> about sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?! > >> > >> That said, it's going to have to become more of a service industry, and > >> there has to be serious marketing efforts (the days of people picking up > >> a > >> paper because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by providing a > >> service > >> (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff like: > >> > >> - Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our > >> financial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the > >> luckiest > >> C- I ever got. > >> > >> - How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area's > >> restaurants and service providers to alert readers to the most > >> cost-effective options? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC. > >> > >> - If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to hear > >> themselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate is > >> crucial these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian > >> in > >> England has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called > >> "minute-by-minute reports". The blogger goes over the highlights (with > >> added > >> snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from > >> readers > >> during the game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the game (why > >> would you want to wait until the end to see the result?). > >> > >> Example: > >> > http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live > >> > >> Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games > >> as > >> well - http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236 > >> > >> If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I would > >> absolutely read it. > >> > >> Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry can't > >> come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard. > >> > >> - Swift > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Journalism-alumni mailing list > >> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > >> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Journalism-alumni mailing list > > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > > > > Shawn W. Murphy > Associate Professor of Journalism > Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points > Chair, Department of Journalism > Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism > 103-A Yokum Hall > SUNY Plattsburgh > 101 Broad St. > Plattsburgh, NY 12901 > 518-564-2422, phone > 518-564-2105, fax > shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/pipermail/journalism-alumni/attachments/20090301/a424b3d9/attachment.htm From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Sun Mar 1 12:10:54 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Sun Mar 1 20:01:06 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] Sad day indeed Message-ID: <846170520903010910v12e6631dm40527aa2c44de793@mail.gmail.com> Some newspapers are doing everything they can to try and stay above. Some just are in a downward spiral because they know things aren't good. Here in Utica (the Observer-Dispatch), we now have a team-based structure in the newsroom. One of the teams that was created was a breaking news team. We don't have any competition here other than the local NBC channel, WKTV. But what they always beat us on was breaking news. No TV station is going to have the in-depth stuff a newspaper can provide, which puts us ahead of the curb here. With the creation of this team, we now have people to send to smaller car accidents, ATV accidents, etc. And although they are not the most interesting things to read (don't tell that to the breaking news team), they bring up Web traffic tremendously. Our Web hits are not doing good, especially compared to last year, and it's a concern on everyone's mind. At a time when people are turning to the Web, not only are we losing a ton of visitors, we're obviously losing circulation like everyone else. It's hard right now, as most papers are on hiring freezes, wage freezes, even a lot of furloughs. When I started in Utica, I didn't expect to be here long. But who wants to look for a job in this economy? I've now told myself that I wouldn't mind staying here while my girlfriend finishes school in the area because it seems like no one is hiring. But on that note, if there's anyone who's out right now, the O-D is hiring a sports copy editor. Not the greatest job, but it's open. We also are on a hiring freeze like many other newspapers, but because it was an open position, they are going to rehire for it. And, because I run the copy desk, I no longer have to split one of my people with sports when they make this hire, so you'd be forever in my debt. -Dan Shepard, Class of 2007 On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 8:57 AM, < journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu> wrote: > Send Journalism-alumni mailing list submissions to > journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > journalism-alumni-owner@lists.plattsburgh.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Journalism-alumni digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: sad day for journalism > 2. Re: sad day for journalism > 3. Re: sad day for journalism > 4. Re: sad day for journalism > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 22:35:27 -0500 (EST) > From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism > Message-ID: <3524.68.191.10.12.1235878527.squirrel@webmail.plattsburgh.edu > > > In-Reply-To: <66baef7f0902281713i2cb1cf8v6371a8249dc04470@mail.gmail.com> > References: <012101c999d8$8a74b5e0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> > <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > <66baef7f0902281713i2cb1cf8v6371a8249dc04470@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Precedence: list > Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Message: 1 > > I recall Denny telling the story of covering a sporting event for his > employer where the reporters for the dailies were laughing at him for > working for a Web-based media organization. I'm guessing they aren't > laughing now. > > Murphy > > > Swift speaks the truth. Per always. > > > > I'll also add that when I graduated nine years ago, I always assumed I > > would > > eventually wind up at a newspaper. Instead, due to various circumstances, > > I > > sort of backed into the Internet business, not even knowing HTML at the > > time > > (internet courses weren''t a required part of the English-Print > Journalism > > major when I went to Plattsburgh). At first, I felt like I needed to work > > at > > a newspaper to validate that I was, in fact, doing something with my > > degree. > > > > > > But the longer I stayed at CBSSports.com, the more I noticed the flood of > > experienced newspaper writers, editors, etc. taking Internet jobs with > our > > company and with our competitors. These were people with years of > > experience > > at very prominent broadsheets. Mike Coulter, if you're on this list, you > > can > > probably back me up on this. > > > > Eight years ago, there were times when I seriously second-guessed myself > > for > > not pursuing an entry-level newspaper job harder, and for sticking with > > the > > Internet instead. Today, I feel the opposite. I feel like I unwittingly > > got > > my foot in the door, ahead of what I expect will be a flood of very > > qualified former newspaper employees, who will just now be switching > > career > > paths. > > > > Don't get me wrong. The Internet hasn't been immune to the recession > > either. > > But as someone at our office recently put it, people are used to getting > > their information on the Internet now, and news generally hits the > > Internet > > very quickly. Newspapers, due to the turnaround time and the process > > involved in producing a daily, are essentially printing yesterday's news. > > And charging you to read it. The more people get used to super-fast news > > delivery on the Internet, the more ridiculous that business model sounds. > > > > Denny Burkholder '00 > > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM, > > wrote: > > > >> > >> AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I > >> happened > >> to go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to write > >> about sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?! > >> > >> That said, it's going to have to become more of a service industry, and > >> there has to be serious marketing efforts (the days of people picking up > >> a > >> paper because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by providing a > >> service > >> (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff like: > >> > >> - Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our > >> financial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the > >> luckiest > >> C- I ever got. > >> > >> - How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area's > >> restaurants and service providers to alert readers to the most > >> cost-effective options? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC. > >> > >> - If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to hear > >> themselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate is > >> crucial these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian > >> in > >> England has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called > >> "minute-by-minute reports". The blogger goes over the highlights (with > >> added > >> snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from > >> readers > >> during the game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the game (why > >> would you want to wait until the end to see the result?). > >> > >> Example: > >> > http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live > >> > >> Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games > >> as > >> well - http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236 > >> > >> If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I would > >> absolutely read it. > >> > >> Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry can't > >> come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard. > >> > >> - Swift > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Journalism-alumni mailing list > >> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > >> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Journalism-alumni mailing list > > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > > > > Shawn W. Murphy > Associate Professor of Journalism > Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points > Chair, Department of Journalism > Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism > 103-A Yokum Hall > SUNY Plattsburgh > 101 Broad St. > Plattsburgh, NY 12901 > 518-564-2422, phone > 518-564-2105, fax > shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 22:44:36 -0500 (EST) > From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism > Message-ID: <3612.68.191.10.12.1235879076.squirrel@webmail.plattsburgh.edu > > > In-Reply-To: <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > References: <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Precedence: list > Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Message: 2 > > I will share with the CP sports and Web staff on Monday. Your idea is a > good one. Perhaps you ARE smarter than you think, Swift. > Murphy > > > > > AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I happened > > to go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to write > > about sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?! > > > > That said, it's going to have to become more of a service industry, and > > there has to be serious marketing efforts (the days of people picking up > a > > paper because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by providing a > > service (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff like: > > > > - Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our > > financial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the > > luckiest C- I ever got. > > > > - How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area's > > restaurants and service providers to alert readers to the most > > cost-effective options? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC. > > > > - If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to hear > > themselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate is > > crucial these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian in > > England has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called > > "minute-by-minute reports". The blogger goes over the highlights (with > > added snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from > > readers during the game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the > > game (why would you want to wait until the end to see the result?). > > > > Example: > > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live > > > > Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games as > > well - http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236 > > > > If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I would > > absolutely read it. > > > > Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry can't > > come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard. > > > > - Swift > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Journalism-alumni mailing list > > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > > > > Shawn W. Murphy > Associate Professor of Journalism > Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points > Chair, Department of Journalism > Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism > 103-A Yokum Hall > SUNY Plattsburgh > 101 Broad St. > Plattsburgh, NY 12901 > 518-564-2422, phone > 518-564-2105, fax > shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 01:10:02 -0500 (GMT-05:00) > From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism > Message-ID: < > 27091824.1235887802597.JavaMail.root@elwamui-hybrid.atl.sa.earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Precedence: list > Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Message: 3 > > Interesting chain, all. While I agree with Swift that we're seeing > something that was predictable a while ago finally beginning to pick up > speed, the demise of newsprint operations is not inevitable. What's long > been necessary is reinvention at two levels -- newspapers should have moved > online early and charged (WSJ and Consumer Reports have both been successful > at this, and Newsday has announced that its going to try -- I'll look for > the link I saw) and differentiation between the online and print products. > > One model would be online as realm of the breaking news and searchable > databases (this is where the role in the community/state/region gets > fulfilled -- searchable archives of obits, local sports data, the restaurant > poll info someone in this chain proposed, you name it. Be a searchable > resource for readers.) Then you've got web as 3 things: breaking news > source, online community, powerful tool. In contrast, your print edition > should play the analytical role that's often sorely lacking -- give readers > pages, not inches, that tear apart in detail county budget proposals. Your > circ will be smaller, but it will be loyal, and it will be a defined, > educated, high-income niche that your ad dept. can attract advertisers with. > And it will only partially overlap with the online subscriber base. Cleverly > use some content from each vehicle in the other, to expose readers to what > goes on in both places, and you will see joint subscriber ship climb, not > one cannibalizing the other. > > That's a drastically oversimplified - and admittedly easier said than done > - version of how 70-plus-year-old Consumer Reports magazine (circ approx. 4 > million) built consumerreports.org into a paid subscription website with > 2.7 million subscribers. (Yes, I spent six years there, managing the > communications department. Started out with seven years in weekly/daily > papers.) > > I hope I've provided some optimism on what is a sad day for those of us who > love print. But it is possible to perhaps lose entirely or completely > transform the media vehicle (daily paper) and reinvent the news organization > that used to produce it to produce another vehicle for delivery of quality > journalism. There's an old saying that I won't get exactly right, but its > basically that the horse-buggy companies didn't survive the change to > automobiles because they saw themselves as in the horse-buggy business, not > the personal transportation business. That applies well to newspapers today. > > best wishes, > Gene Lomoriello > class of '89 > > > -----Original Message----- > >From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > >Sent: Feb 28, 2009 10:35 PM > >To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > >Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism > > > >I recall Denny telling the story of covering a sporting event for his > >employer where the reporters for the dailies were laughing at him for > >working for a Web-based media organization. I'm guessing they aren't > >laughing now. > > > >Murphy > > > >> Swift speaks the truth. Per always. > >> > >> I'll also add that when I graduated nine years ago, I always assumed I > >> would > >> eventually wind up at a newspaper. Instead, due to various > circumstances, > >> I > >> sort of backed into the Internet business, not even knowing HTML at the > >> time > >> (internet courses weren''t a required part of the English-Print > Journalism > >> major when I went to Plattsburgh). At first, I felt like I needed to > work > >> at > >> a newspaper to validate that I was, in fact, doing something with my > >> degree. > >> > >> > >> But the longer I stayed at CBSSports.com, the more I noticed the flood > of > >> experienced newspaper writers, editors, etc. taking Internet jobs with > our > >> company and with our competitors. These were people with years of > >> experience > >> at very prominent broadsheets. Mike Coulter, if you're on this list, you > >> can > >> probably back me up on this. > >> > >> Eight years ago, there were times when I seriously second-guessed myself > >> for > >> not pursuing an entry-level newspaper job harder, and for sticking with > >> the > >> Internet instead. Today, I feel the opposite. I feel like I unwittingly > >> got > >> my foot in the door, ahead of what I expect will be a flood of very > >> qualified former newspaper employees, who will just now be switching > >> career > >> paths. > >> > >> Don't get me wrong. The Internet hasn't been immune to the recession > >> either. > >> But as someone at our office recently put it, people are used to getting > >> their information on the Internet now, and news generally hits the > >> Internet > >> very quickly. Newspapers, due to the turnaround time and the process > >> involved in producing a daily, are essentially printing yesterday's > news. > >> And charging you to read it. The more people get used to super-fast news > >> delivery on the Internet, the more ridiculous that business model > sounds. > >> > >> Denny Burkholder '00 > >> > >> > >> > >> On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM, > >> wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I > >>> happened > >>> to go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to write > >>> about sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?! > >>> > >>> That said, it's going to have to become more of a service industry, and > >>> there has to be serious marketing efforts (the days of people picking > up > >>> a > >>> paper because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by providing a > >>> service > >>> (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff like: > >>> > >>> - Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our > >>> financial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the > >>> luckiest > >>> C- I ever got. > >>> > >>> - How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area's > >>> restaurants and service providers to alert readers to the most > >>> cost-effective options? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC. > >>> > >>> - If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to hear > >>> themselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate is > >>> crucial these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian > >>> in > >>> England has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called > >>> "minute-by-minute reports". The blogger goes over the highlights (with > >>> added > >>> snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from > >>> readers > >>> during the game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the game > (why > >>> would you want to wait until the end to see the result?). > >>> > >>> Example: > >>> > http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live > >>> > >>> Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games > >>> as > >>> well - http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236 > >>> > >>> If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I would > >>> absolutely read it. > >>> > >>> Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry can't > >>> come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard. > >>> > >>> - Swift > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Journalism-alumni mailing list > >>> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > >>> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Journalism-alumni mailing list > >> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > >> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > >> > > > > > >Shawn W. Murphy > >Associate Professor of Journalism > >Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points > >Chair, Department of Journalism > >Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism > >103-A Yokum Hall > >SUNY Plattsburgh > >101 Broad St. > >Plattsburgh, NY 12901 > >518-564-2422, phone > >518-564-2105, fax > >shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Journalism-alumni mailing list > >Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > >http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 10:10:15 -0500 > From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism > Message-ID: <66baef7f0903010710r1d037b8eqb357092f8909ba0e@mail.gmail.com> > In-Reply-To: < > 3524.68.191.10.12.1235878527.squirrel@webmail.plattsburgh.edu> > References: <012101c999d8$8a74b5e0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> > <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > <66baef7f0902281713i2cb1cf8v6371a8249dc04470@mail.gmail.com> > <3524.68.191.10.12.1235878527.squirrel@webmail.plattsburgh.edu> > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00151750e18467f4c20464101985 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Precedence: list > Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Message: 4 > > --00151750e18467f4c20464101985 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Murphy, that's correct, and it was less than two years ago. It would have > been more understandable in 2001, but in 2007, I think it was a bit of an > antiquated sentiment. > > This experienced broadsheet reporter walked up and down the press row, > checking out the seating assignments to see which publications were there. > After figuring out she was one of the few newspaper reporters among a bunch > of Internet reporters, she said out loud, "Aren't there any REAL reporters > here?" I was lucky enough to be seated right beside her for the event, so I > got to hear her bonus rant afterward, a half-hour-long diatribe about how > this apparently wasn't an event worth her time and how she could be home > watching *Law & Order* right now. > > She's a good reporter -- still on the job, in fact. She's just one of those > old-timey newspaper elitists. She refuses to accept that anyone with true > skill or education might choose to work anywhere but a daily. I wish her > luck in a couple years (or months?) when she's interviewing for a job in > front of many of the reporters she offended that night. > > Denny > > > > On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 10:35 PM, > wrote: > > > I recall Denny telling the story of covering a sporting event for his > > employer where the reporters for the dailies were laughing at him for > > working for a Web-based media organization. I'm guessing they aren't > > laughing now. > > > > Murphy > > > > > Swift speaks the truth. Per always. > > > > > > I'll also add that when I graduated nine years ago, I always assumed I > > > would > > > eventually wind up at a newspaper. Instead, due to various > circumstances, > > > I > > > sort of backed into the Internet business, not even knowing HTML at the > > > time > > > (internet courses weren''t a required part of the English-Print > > Journalism > > > major when I went to Plattsburgh). At first, I felt like I needed to > work > > > at > > > a newspaper to validate that I was, in fact, doing something with my > > > degree. > > > > > > > > > But the longer I stayed at CBSSports.com, the more I noticed the flood > of > > > experienced newspaper writers, editors, etc. taking Internet jobs with > > our > > > company and with our competitors. These were people with years of > > > experience > > > at very prominent broadsheets. Mike Coulter, if you're on this list, > you > > > can > > > probably back me up on this. > > > > > > Eight years ago, there were times when I seriously second-guessed > myself > > > for > > > not pursuing an entry-level newspaper job harder, and for sticking with > > > the > > > Internet instead. Today, I feel the opposite. I feel like I unwittingly > > > got > > > my foot in the door, ahead of what I expect will be a flood of very > > > qualified former newspaper employees, who will just now be switching > > > career > > > paths. > > > > > > Don't get me wrong. The Internet hasn't been immune to the recession > > > either. > > > But as someone at our office recently put it, people are used to > getting > > > their information on the Internet now, and news generally hits the > > > Internet > > > very quickly. Newspapers, due to the turnaround time and the process > > > involved in producing a daily, are essentially printing yesterday's > news. > > > And charging you to read it. The more people get used to super-fast > news > > > delivery on the Internet, the more ridiculous that business model > sounds. > > > > > > Denny Burkholder '00 > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM, > > > wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I > > >> happened > > >> to go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to > write > > >> about sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?! > > >> > > >> That said, it's going to have to become more of a service industry, > and > > >> there has to be serious marketing efforts (the days of people picking > up > > >> a > > >> paper because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by providing a > > >> service > > >> (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff like: > > >> > > >> - Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our > > >> financial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the > > >> luckiest > > >> C- I ever got. > > >> > > >> - How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area's > > >> restaurants and service providers to alert readers to the most > > >> cost-effective options? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC. > > >> > > >> - If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to hear > > >> themselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate > is > > >> crucial these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian > > >> in > > >> England has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called > > >> "minute-by-minute reports". The blogger goes over the highlights (with > > >> added > > >> snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from > > >> readers > > >> during the game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the game > (why > > >> would you want to wait until the end to see the result?). > > >> > > >> Example: > > >> > > > http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live > > >> > > >> Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games > > >> as > > >> well - http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236 > > >> > > >> If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I would > > >> absolutely read it. > > >> > > >> Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry > can't > > >> come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard. > > >> > > >> - Swift > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Journalism-alumni mailing list > > >> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > > >> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Journalism-alumni mailing list > > > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > > > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > > > > > > > > Shawn W. Murphy > > Associate Professor of Journalism > > Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points > > Chair, Department of Journalism > > Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism > > 103-A Yokum Hall > > SUNY Plattsburgh > > 101 Broad St. > > Plattsburgh, NY 12901 > > 518-564-2422, phone > > 518-564-2105, fax > > shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Journalism-alumni mailing list > > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > > > --00151750e18467f4c20464101985 > Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Murphy, that's correct, and it was less than two years ago. It would > ha= > ve been more understandable in 2001, but in 2007, I think it was a bit of > a= > n antiquated sentiment.

This experienced broadsheet reporter walked > = > up and down the press row, checking out the seating assignments to see > whic= > h publications were there. After figuring out she was one of the few > newspa= > per reporters among a bunch of Internet reporters, she said out loud, > "= > ;Aren't there any REAL reporters here?" I was lucky enough to be > s= > eated right beside her for the event, so I got to hear her bonus rant > after= > ward, a half-hour-long diatribe about how this apparently wasn't an > eve= > nt worth her time and how she could be home watching Law & > Order= > right now.
>
She's a good reporter -- still on the job, in fact. She's just > = > one of those old-timey newspaper elitists. She refuses to accept that > anyon= > e with true skill or education might choose to work anywhere but a daily. > I= > wish her luck in a couple years (or months?) when she's interviewing > f= > or a job in front of many of the reporters she offended that night.
>
Denny



On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 > at= > 10:35 PM, < journalism-alumni@lists= > .plattsburgh.edu">journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu> > wr= > ote:
>
= > 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">I recall Denny > te= > lling the story of covering a sporting event for his
> employer where the reporters for the dailies were laughing at him for
> working for a Web-based media organization. I'm guessing they > aren'= > t
> laughing now.
>
> Murphy
>

> > Swift speaks the truth. Per always.
> >
> > I'll also add that when I graduated nine years ago, I always > assum= > ed I
> > would
> > eventually wind up at a newspaper. Instead, due to various > circumstanc= > es,
> > I
> > sort of backed into the Internet business, not even knowing HTML at > th= > e
> > time
> > (internet courses weren''t a required part of the > English-Prin= > t Journalism
> > major when I went to Plattsburgh). At first, I felt like I needed to > w= > ork
> > at
> > a newspaper to validate that I was, in fact, doing something with > my r> > > degree.
> >
> >
> > But the longer I stayed at CBSSports.com, the more I noticed the > flood= > of
> > experienced newspaper writers, editors, etc. taking Internet jobs > with= > our
> > company and with our competitors. These were people with years of
> > experience
> > at very prominent broadsheets. Mike Coulter, if you're on this > lis= > t, you
> > can
> > probably back me up on this.
> >
> > Eight years ago, there were times when I seriously second-guessed > myse= > lf
> > for
> > not pursuing an entry-level newspaper job harder, and for sticking > wit= > h
> > the
> > Internet instead. Today, I feel the opposite. I feel like I > unwittingl= > y
> > got
> > my foot in the door, ahead of what I expect will be a flood of > very > > > qualified former newspaper employees, who will just now be > switching r> > > career
> > paths.
> >
> > Don't get me wrong. The Internet hasn't been immune to the > rec= > ession
> > either.
> > But as someone at our office recently put it, people are used to > getti= > ng
> > their information on the Internet now, and news generally hits the
> > Internet
> > very quickly. Newspapers, due to the turnaround time and the > process r> > > involved in producing a daily, are essentially printing > yesterday'= > s news.
> > And charging you to read it. The more people get used to super-fast > ne= > ws
> > delivery on the Internet, the more ridiculous that business model > soun= > ds.
> >
> > Denny Burkholder '00
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM,
> > < ">journal= > ism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that > I r> > >> happened
> >> to go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to > = > write
> >> about sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?!
> >>
> >> That said, it's going to have to become more of a service > indu= > stry, and
> >> there has to be serious marketing efforts (the days of people > pick= > ing up
> >> a
> >> paper because it's "the paper" are over). What I > mea= > n by providing a
> >> service
> >> (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff > like: r> > >>
> >> - Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind > = > our
> >> financial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was > th= > e
> >> luckiest
> >> C- I ever got.
> >>
> >> - How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the > area&#= > 39;s
> >> restaurants and service providers to alert readers to the most
> >> cost-effective options? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC.
> >>
> >> - If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love > t= > o hear
> >> themselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to > participa= > te is
> >> crucial these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The > Guar= > dian
> >> in
> >> England has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches > call= > ed
> >> "minute-by-minute reports". The blogger goes over the > hi= > ghlights (with
> >> added
> >> snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in > from<= > br> > >> readers
> >> during the game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't > see= > the game (why
> >> would you want to wait until the end to see the result?).
> >>
> >> Example:
> >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-= > roma-champions-league-live" > target=3D"_blank">http://www.guardian.co.uk/foo= > tball/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live >
> >>
> >> Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens > g= > ames
> >> as
> >> well - target=3D"_= > blank">http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236
> >>
> >> If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's > website,= > I would
> >> absolutely read it.
> >>
> >> Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the > indus= > try can't
> >> come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that > hard. r> > >>
> >> - Swift
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Journalism-alumni mailing list
> >> ">Journal= > ism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
> >> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalis= > m-alumni" > target=3D"_blank">http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/j= > ournalism-alumni >
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Journalism-alumni mailing list
> > ">Journalism-= > alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
> > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-al= > umni" target=3D"_blank"> > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journ= > alism-alumni >
> >
>
>
>
Shawn W. Murphy
> Associate Professor of Journalism
> Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points
> Chair, Department of Journalism
> Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism
> 103-A Yokum Hall
> SUNY Plattsburgh
> 101 Broad St.
> Plattsburgh, NY 12901
> 518-564-2422, phone
> 518-564-2105, fax
> ">shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.ed= > u
>

> > --00151750e18467f4c20464101985-- > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > > End of Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 27, Issue 1 > ************************************************ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/pipermail/journalism-alumni/attachments/20090301/8cd2f2a7/attachment.htm From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Mon Mar 2 04:45:27 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Sun Mar 1 22:32:59 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism In-Reply-To: <66baef7f0903010710r1d037b8eqb357092f8909ba0e@mail.gmail.com> References: <012101c999d8$8a74b5e0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <66baef7f0902281713i2cb1cf8v6371a8249dc04470@mail.gmail.com> <3524.68.191.10.12.1235878527.squirrel@webmail.plattsburgh.edu> <66baef7f0903010710r1d037b8eqb357092f8909ba0e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I think we all saw the end of print coming eventually, but I was hoping it wouldn't approaching this quickly. Mainly because I'm old fashioned and enjoy reading a newspaper, having some coffee and watching sportscenter in the morning (well, whenever I wake up before noon). It seemed like I was in the minority when older people in the business said they liked getting their news from CNN or google in the AM. I worked for a daily and tabloid for about four years when I was still living in New York. I enjoyed my time working for both papers and loved the area. It gave me experience needed to advance, but the one thing it didn't do was get me prepared for the Internet side of the business. We had our Web site, but it was just the basic newspaper site. When more and more of our local competitors started doing more with the online product we were still reluctant to do anything with ours. I remember the editors saying we didn't want to ruin the experience of someone opening their papers up the next morning or seeing a huge story on the front page. If we did anything on the site it would be a quick sentence and to read the rest of the story the next day. Eventually my paper caved, hired and online editor but in my opinion the site got worse. The archives were lost, which is one thing I know people in the community liked about our site. I think if they embraced the site and what it could have done for the paper they'd be in a better situation financially especially with the economy being the way it is. Instead, not only is circulation of the paper down, I'm sure they've lost some good workers. When I moved to Florida last year I realized how bad the situation was and that I picked a terrible time to look for a journalism job in the Sunshine State. Luckily for me, I had a fellow CPer down here to help me out until I eventually found my current job. You guessed it, I'm now a sports editor for Web site. It was difficult at first to get used this side of the business, especially the lingo. No more chasing fire trucks or police cars to get the scoop and pictures of an accident. I didn't take any Internet courses while at Plattsburgh, but wish I did. How cool would it have been to lay out the paper from the Monopole? Sorry I started thinking about beer. Just thought I'd throw my two cents in....there ya go. Goodwin 03 Date: Sun, 1 Mar 2009 10:10:15 -0500 Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Murphy, that's correct, and it was less than two years ago. It would have been more understandable in 2001, but in 2007, I think it was a bit of an antiquated sentiment. This experienced broadsheet reporter walked up and down the press row, checking out the seating assignments to see which publications were there. After figuring out she was one of the few newspaper reporters among a bunch of Internet reporters, she said out loud, "Aren't there any REAL reporters here?" I was lucky enough to be seated right beside her for the event, so I got to hear her bonus rant afterward, a half-hour-long diatribe about how this apparently wasn't an event worth her time and how she could be home watching Law & Order right now. She's a good reporter -- still on the job, in fact. She's just one of those old-timey newspaper elitists. She refuses to accept that anyone with true skill or education might choose to work anywhere but a daily. I wish her luck in a couple years (or months?) when she's interviewing for a job in front of many of the reporters she offended that night. Denny On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 10:35 PM, wrote: I recall Denny telling the story of covering a sporting event for his employer where the reporters for the dailies were laughing at him for working for a Web-based media organization. I'm guessing they aren't laughing now. Murphy > Swift speaks the truth. Per always. > > I'll also add that when I graduated nine years ago, I always assumed I > would > eventually wind up at a newspaper. Instead, due to various circumstances, > I > sort of backed into the Internet business, not even knowing HTML at the > time > (internet courses weren''t a required part of the English-Print Journalism > major when I went to Plattsburgh). At first, I felt like I needed to work > at > a newspaper to validate that I was, in fact, doing something with my > degree. > > > But the longer I stayed at CBSSports.com, the more I noticed the flood of > experienced newspaper writers, editors, etc. taking Internet jobs with our > company and with our competitors. These were people with years of > experience > at very prominent broadsheets. Mike Coulter, if you're on this list, you > can > probably back me up on this. > > Eight years ago, there were times when I seriously second-guessed myself > for > not pursuing an entry-level newspaper job harder, and for sticking with > the > Internet instead. Today, I feel the opposite. I feel like I unwittingly > got > my foot in the door, ahead of what I expect will be a flood of very > qualified former newspaper employees, who will just now be switching > career > paths. > > Don't get me wrong. The Internet hasn't been immune to the recession > either. > But as someone at our office recently put it, people are used to getting > their information on the Internet now, and news generally hits the > Internet > very quickly. Newspapers, due to the turnaround time and the process > involved in producing a daily, are essentially printing yesterday's news. > And charging you to read it. The more people get used to super-fast news > delivery on the Internet, the more ridiculous that business model sounds. > > Denny Burkholder '00 > > > > On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM, > wrote: > >> >> AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I >> happened >> to go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to write >> about sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?! >> >> That said, it's going to have to become more of a service industry, and >> there has to be serious marketing efforts (the days of people picking up >> a >> paper because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by providing a >> service >> (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff like: >> >> - Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our >> financial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the >> luckiest >> C- I ever got. >> >> - How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area's >> restaurants and service providers to alert readers to the most >> cost-effective options? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC. >> >> - If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to hear >> themselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate is >> crucial these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian >> in >> England has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called >> "minute-by-minute reports". The blogger goes over the highlights (with >> added >> snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from >> readers >> during the game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the game (why >> would you want to wait until the end to see the result?). >> >> Example: >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live >> >> Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games >> as >> well - http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236 >> >> If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I would >> absolutely read it. >> >> Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry can't >> come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard. >> >> - Swift >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Journalism-alumni mailing list >> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni >> > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > Shawn W. Murphy Associate Professor of Journalism Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points Chair, Department of Journalism Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism 103-A Yokum Hall SUNY Plattsburgh 101 Broad St. Plattsburgh, NY 12901 518-564-2422, phone 518-564-2105, fax shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu _______________________________________________ Journalism-alumni mailing list Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/pipermail/journalism-alumni/attachments/20090302/a70d0f83/attachment.htm From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Sun Mar 1 23:43:32 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Mon Mar 2 09:48:30 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] RE: Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: <20090301021717.128FFA33E9@lists.plattsburgh.edu> References: <20090301021717.128FFA33E9@lists.plattsburgh.edu> Message-ID: OK, Denny, I'll answer the call. :) While I agree that the newspaper model is quickly becoming obsolete, that video is still one of the more depressing things I've seen since graduating. Even in that final clip, though, it becomes clear why things are falling apart. Denial? Maybe. The editors interviewed barely acknowledge what is, in my opinion, a newspaper's most crucial flaw... speed. What was considered fast 20 years ago is unforgivably slow today. Microwaves cook food in seconds, digital cameras can give you printed, portrait-quality images in minutes, and people get their news as it breaks, on their cell phone. "It's the economy!" No, it's not. It may be speeding up the inevitable, but the economy isn't what's killing papers. The internet is destroying print journalism, and there's no way that newspapers can keep up with the speed of the web. The one Rocky Mountain News editor that does mention the internet makes reference to unskilled "bloggers"... like we're all a bunch of rouge, ponytailed internet nerds typing away from a darkened basement. More denial? Probably. I'm shocked that some people don't know this yet, but as Denny suggested, there are a lot of legitimate news people in the web business now. Like Mr. Burkholder, I'm at CBSSports.com, and we've got a ton of old school newspaper people on the desk. I did spend a few years reporting at a daily before I got here, and I can tell you, there's not much we do differently than an ordinary newspaper. We have reporters, copy editors and a managing editor. AP style is still the law of the land. We have daily budget meetings. Hell, we even have those clich? clocks on the wall like you see in movies... the ones where you can see what time it is in Beijing or Paris. (We, of course, have our time zone labeled after a local bar. It's 10:42 p.m. at Sharky's.) Alcoholics? Nope. We don't go to meetings. Right now, newspaper executives have to be honest with themselves. Ink and paper is dead, and papers need to move quickly to figure out a way to stay relevant in the digital world. The positive part of this situation is that the internet has no boundaries. I know that the people I've worked with in newspapers are creative and resourceful enough to figure out a way to take advantage of new technology, and the first one that does will be heralded as the genius who saved an industry. Me? Ha! Maybe newspapers will go extinct, but their absence will open up a huge void in the way of local news. If it's done right, maybe a network of websites dedicated to local reporting could take off? Maybe doing something that really plays up an investigative angle would work? How about something super interactive that takes advantage of social networking ideas? Eh... Like I said, I'm not that genius, but someone out there is. Oh, and if anyone reading this makes it big off one of my ideas, I'll expect some kind of well-compensated, advisory gig! - Mike Coulter '04 -----Original Message----- From: journalism-alumni-bounces@lists.plattsburgh.edu [mailto:journalism-alumni-bounces@lists.plattsburgh.edu] On Behalf Of journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:17 PM To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Subject: Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 9 Send Journalism-alumni mailing list submissions to journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu You can reach the person managing the list at journalism-alumni-owner@lists.plattsburgh.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Journalism-alumni digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 8 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 18:27:17 -0800 (PST) From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Subject: [jou-alumni] Re: Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 8 Message-ID: <170364.26517.qm@web52310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20090301010056.15568A33E3@lists.plattsburgh.edu> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1956695519-1235874437=:26517" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Message: 1 --0-1956695519-1235874437=:26517 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Believe me, Swift, i have also seen the "writing on the wall" regarding the demise of newspapers. You're not the only sooth-sayer on that one. I'm someone who has also embraced change in my career and, like Denny hve taught myself new media skills to stay in the game. But after watching the poignant tribute on the Rocky's web site, I'm not convinced that I should not feel sad. It hit close to home, pure and simple. A world without print media? Me no likey. -melissa Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life. -- Bertolt Brecht --- On Sat, 2/28/09, journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu wrote: From: journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu Subject: Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 8 To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Date: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 4:00 PM Send Journalism-alumni mailing list submissions to journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu You can reach the person managing the list at journalism-alumni-owner@lists.plattsburgh.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Journalism-alumni digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: sad day for journalism 2. Re: sad day for journalism 3. Re: sad day for journalism 4. Re: sad day for journalism 5. Re: sad day for journalism ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:59 -0800 (PST) From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism Message-ID: <988938.72357.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <515294.88403.qm@web52309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Message: 1 Melissa: It's a sad day for the people who are losing their jobs and such, I'll agree with that. But, those on this list might remember that I've been saying that this was coming for a long time. The thing is, there is still a place in this world for strong investigative journalism. With so much TV news being aimed at the level of lobotomized chimps, I'm amazed that no one has been able to market "news for grown-ups" that is truly neutral in scope. Of course, the current print vehicles are largely handcuffed because they're all owned by huge conglomerates who are as incompetent and lacking in imagination as the leaders of the financial industry (and who often use their news outlets as a means of distributing their outlook rather than, you know, report the news). I mean, the internet is RIGHT THERE. Especially given the environmental concerns of our age, it's ridiculous that we're still killing forests to distribute news...I mean, what, were scrolls not available? *smirk* The entities who "win" and who survive are the ones who finally figure out how to utilize new technologies - Kindles, etc. Instead of mourning the latest newspaper to die out (this won't be the last, I assure you...there's more coming, and coming quick), the industry should be getting its best minds together to figure out how best to use the internet and electronic readers and all the other fancy stuff available these days. - Sean Swift Class of '00 --- On Fri, 2/27/09, journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu wrote: > From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Subject: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism > To: "Journalism List" > Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 6:16 PM > Everyone should check out the video on the Rocky Mountain > News' web site that chronicles the paper's last day. > Very depressing and eerie. The paper found out Thursday that > today would be its last day. I can't imagine what that > must feel like. (Though the day might be coming for all of > us still in the newspaper biz!) Here's a quote from the > editor: > > "...it's like playing music at your own funeral. > It's an opportunity to > make really sweet sounds or blow it. I'd like to go out > really proud." > > http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2009/feb/26/rocky-mountain-news-closes-friday-final-edition/ > > -Melissa Hart > > > > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 14:12:47 -0500 From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu To: Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism Message-ID: <012101c999d8$8a74b5e0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> References: <988938.72357.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Message: 2 For the record, Sean Swift predicted some time ago that this was coming. Also for the record, and to be fair, Sean Swift still holds the record for the longest sports columns in Cardinal Points' history. Not sure how many trees he alone is responsible for killing, but I'd guesstimate quite a few! Murphy ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 2:03 PM Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism > > Melissa: > > It's a sad day for the people who are losing their jobs and such, I'll > agree with that. But, those on this list might remember that I've been > saying that this was coming for a long time. > > The thing is, there is still a place in this world for strong > investigative journalism. With so much TV news being aimed at the level of > lobotomized chimps, I'm amazed that no one has been able to market "news > for grown-ups" that is truly neutral in scope. > > Of course, the current print vehicles are largely handcuffed because > they're all owned by huge conglomerates who are as incompetent and lacking > in imagination as the leaders of the financial industry (and who often use > their news outlets as a means of distributing their outlook rather than, > you know, report the news). I mean, the internet is RIGHT THERE. > Especially given the environmental concerns of our age, it's ridiculous > that we're still killing forests to distribute news...I mean, what, were > scrolls not available? *smirk* The entities who "win" and who survive are > the ones who finally figure out how to utilize new technologies - Kindles, > etc. > > Instead of mourning the latest newspaper to die out (this won't be the > last, I assure you...there's more coming, and coming quick), the industry > should be getting its best minds together to figure out how best to use > the internet and electronic readers and all the other fancy stuff > available these days. > > - Sean Swift > Class of '00 > > > > > --- On Fri, 2/27/09, journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > wrote: > >> From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >> >> Subject: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism >> To: "Journalism List" >> Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 6:16 PM >> Everyone should check out the video on the Rocky Mountain >> News' web site that chronicles the paper's last day. >> Very depressing and eerie. The paper found out Thursday that >> today would be its last day. I can't imagine what that >> must feel like. (Though the day might be coming for all of >> us still in the newspaper biz!) Here's a quote from the >> editor: >> >> "...it's like playing music at your own funeral. >> It's an opportunity to >> make really sweet sounds or blow it. I'd like to go out >> really proud." >> >> http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2009/feb/26/rocky-mountain-news-closes-friday-final-edition/ >> >> -Melissa Hart >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Journalism-alumni mailing list >> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > > > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 12:19:05 -0800 (PST) From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism Message-ID: <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <012101c999d8$8a74b5e0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Message: 3 AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I happened to go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to write about sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?! That said, it's going to have to become more of a service industry, and there has to be serious marketing efforts (the days of people picking up a paper because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by providing a service (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff like: - Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our financial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the luckiest C- I ever got. - How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area's restaurants and service providers to alert readers to the most cost-effective options? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC. - If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to hear themselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate is crucial these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian in England has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called "minute-by-minute reports". The blogger goes over the highlights (with added snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from readers during the game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the game (why would you want to wait until the end to see the result?). Example: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games as well - http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236 If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I would absolutely read it. Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry can't come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard. - Swift ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 20:13:59 -0500 From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism Message-ID: <66baef7f0902281713i2cb1cf8v6371a8249dc04470@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <012101c999d8$8a74b5e0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001517573d46b970560464046aba MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Message: 4 --001517573d46b970560464046aba Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Swift speaks the truth. Per always. I'll also add that when I graduated nine years ago, I always assumed I would eventually wind up at a newspaper. Instead, due to various circumstances, I sort of backed into the Internet business, not even knowing HTML at the time (internet courses weren''t a required part of the English-Print Journalism major when I went to Plattsburgh). At first, I felt like I needed to work at a newspaper to validate that I was, in fact, doing something with my degree. But the longer I stayed at CBSSports.com, the more I noticed the flood of experienced newspaper writers, editors, etc. taking Internet jobs with our company and with our competitors. These were people with years of experience at very prominent broadsheets. Mike Coulter, if you're on this list, you can probably back me up on this. Eight years ago, there were times when I seriously second-guessed myself for not pursuing an entry-level newspaper job harder, and for sticking with the Internet instead. Today, I feel the opposite. I feel like I unwittingly got my foot in the door, ahead of what I expect will be a flood of very qualified former newspaper employees, who will just now be switching career paths. Don't get me wrong. The Internet hasn't been immune to the recession either. But as someone at our office recently put it, people are used to getting their information on the Internet now, and news generally hits the Internet very quickly. Newspapers, due to the turnaround time and the process involved in producing a daily, are essentially printing yesterday's news. And charging you to read it. The more people get used to super-fast news delivery on the Internet, the more ridiculous that business model sounds. Denny Burkholder '00 On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM, wrote: > > AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I happened > to go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to write > about sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?! > > That said, it's going to have to become more of a service industry, and > there has to be serious marketing efforts (the days of people picking up a > paper because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by providing a service > (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff like: > > - Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our > financial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the luckiest > C- I ever got. > > - How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area's > restaurants and service providers to alert readers to the most > cost-effective options? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC. > > - If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to hear > themselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate is > crucial these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian in > England has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called > "minute-by-minute reports". The blogger goes over the highlights (with added > snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from readers > during the game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the game (why > would you want to wait until the end to see the result?). > > Example: > http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live > > Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games as > well - http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236 > > If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I would > absolutely read it. > > Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry can't > come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard. > > - Swift > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > --001517573d46b970560464046aba Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Swift speaks the truth. Per always.

I'll also add that when I gr= aduated nine years ago, I always assumed I would eventually wind up at a ne= wspaper. Instead, due to various circumstances, I sort of backed into the I= nternet business, not even knowing HTML at the time (internet courses weren= ''t a required part of the English-Print Journalism major when I we= nt to Plattsburgh). At first, I felt like I needed to work at a newspaper t= o validate that I was, in fact, doing something with my degree.

But the longer I stayed at CBSSports.com, the more I noticed the flood = of experienced newspaper writers, editors, etc. taking Internet jobs with o= ur company and with our competitors. These were people with years of experi= ence at very prominent broadsheets. Mike Coulter, if you're on this lis= t, you can probably back me up on this.

Eight years ago, there were times when I seriously second-guessed mysel= f for not pursuing an entry-level newspaper job harder, and for sticking wi= th the Internet instead. Today, I feel the opposite. I feel like I unwittin= gly got my foot in the door, ahead of what I expect will be a flood of very= qualified former newspaper employees, who will just now be switching caree= r paths.

Don't get me wrong. The Internet hasn't been immune to the rece= ssion either. But as someone at our office recently put it, people are used= to getting their information on the Internet now, and news generally hits = the Internet very quickly. Newspapers, due to the turnaround time and the p= rocess involved in producing a daily, are essentially printing yesterday= 9;s news. And charging you to read it. The more people get used to super-fa= st news delivery on the Internet, the more ridiculous that business model s= ounds.

Denny Burkholder '00



On S= at, Feb 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM, <journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu= > wrote:

AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I happened t= o go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to write abou= t sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?!

That said, it's going to have to become more of a service industry, and= there has to be serious marketing efforts (the days of people picking up a= paper because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by pro= viding a service (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff= like:

- Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our finan= cial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the luckiest C- = I ever got.

- How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area's rest= aurants and service providers to alert readers to the most cost-effective o= ptions? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC.

- If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to hear th= emselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate is cruci= al these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian in Englan= d has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called "minute= -by-minute reports". The blogger goes over the highlights (with added = snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from readers d= uring the game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the game = (why would you want to wait until the end to see the result?).

Example: http://www.guardian.co.uk/foo= tball/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live

Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games as w= ell - htt= p://habsinsideout.com/node/16236

If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I would = absolutely read it.

Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry can&#= 39;t come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard.

- Swift




_______________________________________________
Journalism-alumni mailing list
Journalism-alumn= i@lists.plattsburgh.edu
http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism= -alumni

--001517573d46b970560464046aba-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 21:13:15 -0500 From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism Message-ID: <8549dc340902281813r686c6a63ga31f95df7a21b381@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <66baef7f0902281713i2cb1cf8v6371a8249dc04470@mail.gmail.com> References: <012101c999d8$8a74b5e0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <66baef7f0902281713i2cb1cf8v6371a8249dc04470@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Message: 5 For a wonderful explanation of the fine mess our economy finds itself in, check out http://haha.nu/interesting/the-credit-crisis-visualized/. Monica On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 8:13 PM, wrote: > Swift speaks the truth. Per always. > > I'll also add that when I graduated nine years ago, I always assumed I would > eventually wind up at a newspaper. Instead, due to various circumstances, I > sort of backed into the Internet business, not even knowing HTML at the time > (internet courses weren''t a required part of the English-Print Journalism > major when I went to Plattsburgh). At first, I felt like I needed to work at > a newspaper to validate that I was, in fact, doing something with my degree. > > But the longer I stayed at CBSSports.com, the more I noticed the flood of > experienced newspaper writers, editors, etc. taking Internet jobs with our > company and with our competitors. These were people with years of experience > at very prominent broadsheets. Mike Coulter, if you're on this list, you can > probably back me up on this. > > Eight years ago, there were times when I seriously second-guessed myself for > not pursuing an entry-level newspaper job harder, and for sticking with the > Internet instead. Today, I feel the opposite. I feel like I unwittingly got > my foot in the door, ahead of what I expect will be a flood of very > qualified former newspaper employees, who will just now be switching career > paths. > > Don't get me wrong. The Internet hasn't been immune to the recession either. > But as someone at our office recently put it, people are used to getting > their information on the Internet now, and news generally hits the Internet > very quickly. Newspapers, due to the turnaround time and the process > involved in producing a daily, are essentially printing yesterday's news. > And charging you to read it. The more people get used to super-fast news > delivery on the Internet, the more ridiculous that business model sounds. > > Denny Burkholder '00 > > > > On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM, > wrote: >> >> AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I happened >> to go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to write >> about sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?! >> >> That said, it's going to have to become more of a service industry, and >> there has to be serious marketing efforts (the days of people picking up a >> paper because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by providing a service >> (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff like: >> >> - Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our >> financial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the luckiest >> C- I ever got. >> >> - How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area's >> restaurants and service providers to alert readers to the most >> cost-effective options? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC. >> >> - If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to hear >> themselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate is >> crucial these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian in >> England has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called >> "minute-by-minute reports". The blogger goes over the highlights (with added >> snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from readers >> during the game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the game (why >> would you want to wait until the end to see the result?). >> >> Example: >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live >> >> Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games as >> well - http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236 >> >> If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I would >> absolutely read it. >> >> Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry can't >> come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard. >> >> - Swift >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Journalism-alumni mailing list >> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > -- Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come - Matt Groening ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Journalism-alumni mailing list Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni End of Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 8 ************************************************ --0-1956695519-1235874437=:26517 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Believe me, Swift, i have also seen the "writing on the wall" regarding the demise of newspapers. You're not the only sooth-sayer on that one. I'm someone who has also embraced change in my career and, like Denny hve taught myself new media skills to stay in the game. But after watching the poignant tribute on the Rocky's web site, I'm not convinced that I should not feel sad. It hit close to home, pure and simple.

A world without print media? Me no likey.
-melissa

Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.
-- Bertolt Brecht

--- On Sat, 2/28/09, journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu <journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu> wrote:
From: journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu <journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu>
Subject: Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 8
To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
Date: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 4:00 PM

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: sad day for journalism
   2. Re: sad day for journalism
   3. Re: sad day for journalism
   4. Re: sad day for journalism
   5. Re: sad day for journalism


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:59 -0800 (PST)
From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism
Message-ID: <988938.72357.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <515294.88403.qm@web52309.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
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Message:
 1


Melissa:

It's a sad day for the people who are losing their jobs and such, I'll
agree with that. But, those on this list might remember that I've been
saying that this was coming for a long time. 

The thing is, there is still a place in this world for strong investigative
journalism. With so much TV news being aimed at the level of lobotomized chimps,
I'm amazed that no one has been able to market "news for
grown-ups" that is truly neutral in scope. 

Of course, the current print vehicles are largely handcuffed because
they're all owned by huge conglomerates who are as incompetent and lacking
in imagination as the leaders of the financial industry (and who often use their
news outlets as a means of distributing their outlook rather than, you know,
report the news). I mean, the internet is RIGHT THERE. Especially given the
environmental concerns of our age, it's ridiculous that we're
 still
killing forests to distribute news...I mean, what, were scrolls not available?
*smirk*  The entities who "win" and who survive are the ones who
finally figure out how to utilize new technologies - Kindles, etc. 

Instead of mourning the latest newspaper to die out (this won't be the
last, I assure you...there's more coming, and coming quick), the industry
should be getting its best minds together to figure out how best to use the
internet and electronic readers and all the other fancy stuff available these
days.

- Sean Swift
Class of '00




--- On Fri, 2/27/09, journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
<journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu> wrote:

> From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
<journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>
> Subject: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism
> To: "Journalism
 List"
<journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>
> Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 6:16 PM
> Everyone should check out the video on the Rocky Mountain
> News' web site that chronicles the paper's last day.
> Very depressing and eerie. The paper found out Thursday that
> today would be its last day. I can't imagine what that
> must feel like. (Though the day might be coming for all of
> us still in the newspaper biz!) Here's a quote from the
> editor:
> 
> "...it's like playing music at your own funeral.
> It's an opportunity to
> make really sweet sounds or blow it. I'd like to go out
> really proud."
> 
>
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2009/feb/26/rocky-mountain-news-closes-friday-final-edition/
> 
> -Melissa Hart 
> 
> 
> 
>       _______________________________________________
> Journalism-alumni
 mailing list
> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni


      
------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 14:12:47 -0500
From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
To: <journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>
Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism
Message-ID: <012101c999d8$8a74b5e0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds>
References: <988938.72357.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
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For the record, Sean Swift predicted some time ago that this was coming. 
Also for the record, and to be fair, Sean Swift still holds the record for 
the longest sports columns in Cardinal
 Points' history. Not sure how many 
trees he alone is responsible for killing, but I'd guesstimate quite a few!

Murphy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>
To: <journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism


>
> Melissa:
>
> It's a sad day for the people who are losing their jobs and such,
I'll 
> agree with that. But, those on this list might remember that I've been

> saying that this was coming for a long time.
>
> The thing is, there is still a place in this world for strong 
> investigative journalism. With so much TV news being aimed at the level of

> lobotomized chimps, I'm amazed that no one has been able to market
"news 
> for grown-ups" that is truly neutral in scope.
>
> Of course,
 the current print vehicles are largely handcuffed because 
> they're all owned by huge conglomerates who are as incompetent and
lacking 
> in imagination as the leaders of the financial industry (and who often use

> their news outlets as a means of distributing their outlook rather than, 
> you know, report the news). I mean, the internet is RIGHT THERE. 
> Especially given the environmental concerns of our age, it's
ridiculous 
> that we're still killing forests to distribute news...I mean, what,
were 
> scrolls not available? *smirk*  The entities who "win" and who
survive are 
> the ones who finally figure out how to utilize new technologies - Kindles,

> etc.
>
> Instead of mourning the latest newspaper to die out (this won't be the

> last, I assure you...there's more coming, and coming quick), the
industry 
> should be getting its best minds
 together to figure out how best to use 
> the internet and electronic readers and all the other fancy stuff 
> available these days.
>
> - Sean Swift
> Class of '00
>
>
>
>
> --- On Fri, 2/27/09, journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu 
> <journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu> wrote:
>
>> From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu 
>> <journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>
>> Subject: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism
>> To: "Journalism List"
<journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>
>> Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 6:16 PM
>> Everyone should check out the video on the Rocky Mountain
>> News' web site that chronicles the paper's last day.
>> Very depressing and eerie. The paper found out Thursday that
>> today would be its last day. I can't imagine what
 that
>> must feel like. (Though the day might be coming for all of
>> us still in the newspaper biz!) Here's a quote from the
>> editor:
>>
>> "...it's like playing music at your own funeral.
>> It's an opportunity to
>> make really sweet sounds or blow it. I'd like to go out
>> really proud."
>>
>>
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2009/feb/26/rocky-mountain-news-closes-friday-final-edition/
>>
>> -Melissa Hart
>>
>>
>>
>>       _______________________________________________
>> Journalism-alumni mailing list
>> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
>> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Journalism-alumni mailing list
>
 Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 12:19:05 -0800 (PST)
From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism
Message-ID: <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <012101c999d8$8a74b5e0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
MIME-Version: 1.0
Precedence: list
Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
Message: 3


AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I happened to go
9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to write about sports.
Who else ever had THAT problem?!

That said, it's going to have to become more of a service industry, and
there has to be serious
 marketing efforts (the days of people picking up a paper
because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by providing a
service (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff like:

- Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our financial
collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the luckiest C- I ever
got. 

- How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area's
restaurants and service providers to alert readers to the most cost-effective
options? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC.

- If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to hear
themselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate is crucial
these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian in England has a
creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called "minute-by-minute
reports". The blogger goes over the highlights (with added
 snarky
comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from readers during the
game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the game (why would you
want to wait until the end to see the result?). 

Example:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live

Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games as well
- http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236

If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I would
absolutely read it. 

Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry can't
come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard.

- Swift



      
------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 20:13:59 -0500
From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism
Message-ID:
 <66baef7f0902281713i2cb1cf8v6371a8249dc04470@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <012101c999d8$8a74b5e0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds>
	 <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
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--001517573d46b970560464046aba
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Swift speaks the truth. Per always.

I'll also add that when I graduated nine years ago, I always assumed I
would
eventually wind up at a newspaper. Instead, due to various circumstances, I
sort of backed into the Internet business, not even knowing HTML at the time
(internet courses weren''t a required part of the English-Print
Journalism
major when I went to
 Plattsburgh). At first, I felt like I needed to work at
a newspaper to validate that I was, in fact, doing something with my degree.


But the longer I stayed at CBSSports.com, the more I noticed the flood of
experienced newspaper writers, editors, etc. taking Internet jobs with our
company and with our competitors. These were people with years of experience
at very prominent broadsheets. Mike Coulter, if you're on this list, you
can
probably back me up on this.

Eight years ago, there were times when I seriously second-guessed myself for
not pursuing an entry-level newspaper job harder, and for sticking with the
Internet instead. Today, I feel the opposite. I feel like I unwittingly got
my foot in the door, ahead of what I expect will be a flood of very
qualified former newspaper employees, who will just now be switching career
paths.

Don't get me wrong. The Internet hasn't been immune to the
 recession
either.
But as someone at our office recently put it, people are used to getting
their information on the Internet now, and news generally hits the Internet
very quickly. Newspapers, due to the turnaround time and the process
involved in producing a daily, are essentially printing yesterday's news.
And charging you to read it. The more people get used to super-fast news
delivery on the Internet, the more ridiculous that business model sounds.

Denny Burkholder '00



On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM,
<journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>wrote:

>
> AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I happened
> to go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to write
> about sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?!
>
> That said, it's going to have to become more of a service industry,
and
> there has to be serious
 marketing efforts (the days of people picking up a
> paper because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by
providing a service
> (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff like:
>
> - Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our
> financial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the
luckiest
> C- I ever got.
>
> - How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area's
> restaurants and service providers to alert readers to the most
> cost-effective options? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC.
>
> - If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to hear
> themselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate is
> crucial these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian in
> England has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called
>
 "minute-by-minute reports". The blogger goes over the highlights
(with added
> snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from readers
> during the game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the
game (why
> would you want to wait until the end to see the result?).
>
> Example:
>
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live
>
> Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games as
> well - http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236
>
> If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I would
> absolutely read it.
>
> Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry
can't
> come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard.
>
> - Swift
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
 Journalism-alumni mailing list
> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni
>

--001517573d46b970560464046aba
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Swift speaks the truth. Per always.<br><br>I&#39;ll also add
that when I gr=
aduated nine years ago, I always assumed I would eventually wind up at a ne=
wspaper. Instead, due to various circumstances, I sort of backed into the I=
nternet business, not even knowing HTML at the time (internet courses weren=
&#39;&#39;t a required part of the English-Print Journalism major when
I we=
nt to Plattsburgh). At first, I felt like I needed to work at a newspaper t=
o validate that I was, in fact, doing something with my degree. <br>
<br>But the longer I stayed at CBSSports.com, the more I noticed
 the
flood =
of experienced newspaper writers, editors, etc. taking Internet jobs with o=
ur company and with our competitors. These were people with years of experi=
ence at very prominent broadsheets. Mike Coulter, if you&#39;re on this
lis=
t, you can probably back me up on this. <br>
<br>Eight years ago, there were times when I seriously second-guessed
mysel=
f for not pursuing an entry-level newspaper job harder, and for sticking wi=
th the Internet instead. Today, I feel the opposite. I feel like I unwittin=
gly got my foot in the door, ahead of what I expect will be a flood of very=
 qualified former newspaper employees, who will just now be switching caree=
r paths.<br>
<br>Don&#39;t get me wrong. The Internet hasn&#39;t been immune
to the rece=
ssion either. But as someone at our office recently put it, people are used=
 to getting their information on the
 Internet now, and news generally hits =
the Internet very quickly. Newspapers, due to the turnaround time and the p=
rocess involved in producing a daily, are essentially printing
yesterday&#3=
9;s news. And charging you to read it. The more people get used to super-fa=
st news delivery on the Internet, the more ridiculous that business model s=
ounds. <br>
<br>Denny Burkholder
&#39;00<br><br><br><br><div
class=3D"gmail_quote">On S=
at, Feb 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM,  <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:journ=
alism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu">journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu=
</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px
solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br>
AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however
 that I happened t=
o go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to write abou=
t sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?!<br>
<br>
That said, it&#39;s going to have to become more of a service industry,
and=
 there has to be serious marketing efforts (the days of people picking up a=
 paper because it&#39;s &quot;the paper&quot; are over). What I
mean by pro=
viding a service (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff=
 like:<br>

<br>
- Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our finan=
cial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the luckiest C- =
I ever got.<br>
<br>
- How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area&#39;s
rest=
aurants and service providers to alert readers to the most cost-effective o=
ptions? That would be WONDERFUL here in
 NYC.<br>
<br>
- If the internet has proven anything, it&#39;s that people love to hear
th=
emselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate is cruci=
al these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian in Englan=
d has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called
&quot;minute=
-by-minute reports&quot;. The blogger goes over the highlights (with added
=
snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from readers d=
uring the game. It&#39;s fun, and invaluable if you can&#39;t see the
game =
(why would you want to wait until the end to see the result?).<br>

<br>
Example:
 <a
href=3D"http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-=
roma-champions-league-live"
target=3D"_blank">http://www.guardian.co.uk/foo=
tball/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live</a><br>
<br>
Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games as w=
ell - <a href=3D"http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236"
target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://habsinsideout.com/node/16236</a><br>
<br>
If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP&#39;s website, I would
=
absolutely read it.<br>
<br>
Given the fact that I am no genius, I&#39;m stunned that the industry
can&#=
39;t come up with ways to get with the times. It&#39;s not that
hard.<br>
<br>
-
 Swift<br>
<div><div></div><div
class=3D"Wj3C7c"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Journalism-alumni mailing list<br>
<a
href=3D"mailto:Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu">Journalism-alumn=
i@lists.plattsburgh.edu</a><br>
<a
href=3D"http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni"=

target=3D"_blank">http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism=
-alumni</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>

--001517573d46b970560464046aba--
------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 21:13:15 -0500
From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism
Message-ID:
 <8549dc340902281813r686c6a63ga31f95df7a21b381@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <66baef7f0902281713i2cb1cf8v6371a8249dc04470@mail.gmail.com>
References: <012101c999d8$8a74b5e0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds>
	 <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
	 <66baef7f0902281713i2cb1cf8v6371a8249dc04470@mail.gmail.com>
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MIME-Version: 1.0
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Message: 5

For a wonderful explanation of the fine mess our economy finds itself
in, check out http://haha.nu/interesting/the-credit-crisis-visualized/.

Monica

On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 8:13 PM,
<journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu> wrote:
> Swift speaks the truth. Per always.
>
> I'll also add that when I graduated nine years ago, I always assumed I
would
> eventually
 wind up at a newspaper. Instead, due to various circumstances,
I
> sort of backed into the Internet business, not even knowing HTML at the
time
> (internet courses weren''t a required part of the English-Print
Journalism
> major when I went to Plattsburgh). At first, I felt like I needed to work
at
> a newspaper to validate that I was, in fact, doing something with my
degree.
>
> But the longer I stayed at CBSSports.com, the more I noticed the flood of
> experienced newspaper writers, editors, etc. taking Internet jobs with our
> company and with our competitors. These were people with years of
experience
> at very prominent broadsheets. Mike Coulter, if you're on this list,
you can
> probably back me up on this.
>
> Eight years ago, there were times when I seriously second-guessed myself
for
> not pursuing an entry-level newspaper job harder, and for
 sticking with
the
> Internet instead. Today, I feel the opposite. I feel like I unwittingly
got
> my foot in the door, ahead of what I expect will be a flood of very
> qualified former newspaper employees, who will just now be switching
career
> paths.
>
> Don't get me wrong. The Internet hasn't been immune to the
recession either.
> But as someone at our office recently put it, people are used to getting
> their information on the Internet now, and news generally hits the
Internet
> very quickly. Newspapers, due to the turnaround time and the process
> involved in producing a daily, are essentially printing yesterday's
news.
> And charging you to read it. The more people get used to super-fast news
> delivery on the Internet, the more ridiculous that business model sounds.
>
> Denny Burkholder '00
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at
 3:19 PM,
<journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>
> wrote:
>>
>> AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I
happened
>> to go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to
write
>> about sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?!
>>
>> That said, it's going to have to become more of a service
industry, and
>> there has to be serious marketing efforts (the days of people picking
up a
>> paper because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by
providing a service
>> (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff like:
>>
>> - Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our
>> financial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the
luckiest
>> C- I ever got.
>>
>> - How about a feature where local beat reporters
 survey the area's
>> restaurants and service providers to alert readers to the most
>> cost-effective options? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC.
>>
>> - If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to
hear
>> themselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate
is
>> crucial these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian
in
>> England has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called
>> "minute-by-minute reports". The blogger goes over the
highlights (with added
>> snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from
readers
>> during the game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the
game (why
>> would you want to wait until the end to see the result?).
>>
>>
 Example:
>>
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live
>>
>> Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games
as
>> well - http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236
>>
>> If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I
would
>> absolutely read it.
>>
>> Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry
can't
>> come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard.
>>
>> - Swift
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Journalism-alumni mailing list
>> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
>> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
 Journalism-alumni mailing list
> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni
>
>



-- 
Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it
flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come -
Matt Groening
------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Journalism-alumni mailing list
Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni


End of Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 8
************************************************

--0-1956695519-1235874437=:26517-- ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Journalism-alumni mailing list Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni End of Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 9 ************************************************ From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Mon Mar 2 11:05:31 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Mon Mar 2 10:04:03 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] RE: Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <0C2A332401AB7446851F34AD8014936303BD5E7C@EXCHANGE.Syracuse.Local> I'll add two cents: Too many newspaper folks think that everything revolves around editorial content. Truth be told, the least prepared members of newspaper organizations to react to the changing business model were the advertising departments. Even today, there are those who don't know what Craig's List is, let alone AdSense or Facebook or -- you name it. Ad departments never saw this coming, and if they did, they ignored the threat to the business model. sac -----Original Message----- From: journalism-alumni-bounces@lists.plattsburgh.edu [mailto:journalism-alumni-bounces@lists.plattsburgh.edu] On Behalf Of journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Sent: 3/1/2009 11:44 PM To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Subject: [jou-alumni] RE: Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 9 OK, Denny, I'll answer the call. :) While I agree that the newspaper model is quickly becoming obsolete, that video is still one of the more depressing things I've seen since graduating. Even in that final clip, though, it becomes clear why things are falling apart. Denial? Maybe. The editors interviewed barely acknowledge what is, in my opinion, a newspaper's most crucial flaw... speed. What was considered fast 20 years ago is unforgivably slow today. Microwaves cook food in seconds, digital cameras can give you printed, portrait-quality images in minutes, and people get their news as it breaks, on their cell phone. "It's the economy!" No, it's not. It may be speeding up the inevitable, but the economy isn't what's killing papers. The internet is destroying print journalism, and there's no way that newspapers can keep up with the speed of the web. The one Rocky Mountain News editor that does mention the internet makes reference to unskilled "bloggers"... like we're all a bunch of rouge, ponytailed internet nerds typing away from a darkened basement. More denial? Probably. I'm shocked that some people don't know this yet, but as Denny suggested, there are a lot of legitimate news people in the web business now. Like Mr. Burkholder, I'm at CBSSports.com, and we've got a ton of old school newspaper people on the desk. I did spend a few years reporting at a daily before I got here, and I can tell you, there's not much we do differently than an ordinary newspaper. We have reporters, copy editors and a managing editor. AP style is still the law of the land. We have daily budget meetings. Hell, we even have those clich? clocks on the wall like you see in movies... the ones where you can see what time it is in Beijing or Paris. (We, of course, have our time zone labeled after a local bar. It's 10:42 p.m. at Sharky's.) Alcoholics? Nope. We don't go to meetings. Right now, newspaper executives have to be honest with themselves. Ink and paper is dead, and papers need to move quickly to figure out a way to stay relevant in the digital world. The positive part of this situation is that the internet has no boundaries. I know that the people I've worked with in newspapers are creative and resourceful enough to figure out a way to take advantage of new technology, and the first one that does will be heralded as the genius who saved an industry. Me? Ha! Maybe newspapers will go extinct, but their absence will open up a huge void in the way of local news. If it's done right, maybe a network of websites dedicated to local reporting could take off? Maybe doing something that really plays up an investigative angle would work? How about something super interactive that takes advantage of social networking ideas? Eh... Like I said, I'm not that genius, but someone out there is. Oh, and if anyone reading this makes it big off one of my ideas, I'll expect some kind of well-compensated, advisory gig! - Mike Coulter '04 -----Original Message----- From: journalism-alumni-bounces@lists.plattsburgh.edu [mailto:journalism-alumni-bounces@lists.plattsburgh.edu] On Behalf Of journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:17 PM To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Subject: Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 9 Send Journalism-alumni mailing list submissions to journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu You can reach the person managing the list at journalism-alumni-owner@lists.plattsburgh.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Journalism-alumni digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 8 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 18:27:17 -0800 (PST) From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Subject: [jou-alumni] Re: Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 8 Message-ID: <170364.26517.qm@web52310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <20090301010056.15568A33E3@lists.plattsburgh.edu> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1956695519-1235874437=:26517" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Message: 1 --0-1956695519-1235874437=:26517 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Believe me, Swift, i have also seen the "writing on the wall" regarding the demise of newspapers. You're not the only sooth-sayer on that one. I'm someone who has also embraced change in my career and, like Denny hve taught myself new media skills to stay in the game. But after watching the poignant tribute on the Rocky's web site, I'm not convinced that I should not feel sad. It hit close to home, pure and simple. A world without print media? Me no likey. -melissa Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life. -- Bertolt Brecht --- On Sat, 2/28/09, journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu wrote: From: journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu Subject: Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 8 To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Date: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 4:00 PM Send Journalism-alumni mailing list submissions to journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu You can reach the person managing the list at journalism-alumni-owner@lists.plattsburgh.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Journalism-alumni digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: sad day for journalism 2. Re: sad day for journalism 3. Re: sad day for journalism 4. Re: sad day for journalism 5. Re: sad day for journalism ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:59 -0800 (PST) From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism Message-ID: <988938.72357.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <515294.88403.qm@web52309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Message: 1 Melissa: It's a sad day for the people who are losing their jobs and such, I'll agree with that. But, those on this list might remember that I've been saying that this was coming for a long time. The thing is, there is still a place in this world for strong investigative journalism. With so much TV news being aimed at the level of lobotomized chimps, I'm amazed that no one has been able to market "news for grown-ups" that is truly neutral in scope. Of course, the current print vehicles are largely handcuffed because they're all owned by huge conglomerates who are as incompetent and lacking in imagination as the leaders of the financial industry (and who often use their news outlets as a means of distributing their outlook rather than, you know, report the news). I mean, the internet is RIGHT THERE. Especially given the environmental concerns of our age, it's ridiculous that we're still killing forests to distribute news...I mean, what, were scrolls not available? *smirk* The entities who "win" and who survive are the ones who finally figure out how to utilize new technologies - Kindles, etc. Instead of mourning the latest newspaper to die out (this won't be the last, I assure you...there's more coming, and coming quick), the industry should be getting its best minds together to figure out how best to use the internet and electronic readers and all the other fancy stuff available these days. - Sean Swift Class of '00 --- On Fri, 2/27/09, journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu wrote: > From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Subject: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism > To: "Journalism List" > Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 6:16 PM > Everyone should check out the video on the Rocky Mountain > News' web site that chronicles the paper's last day. > Very depressing and eerie. The paper found out Thursday that > today would be its last day. I can't imagine what that > must feel like. (Though the day might be coming for all of > us still in the newspaper biz!) Here's a quote from the > editor: > > "...it's like playing music at your own funeral. > It's an opportunity to > make really sweet sounds or blow it. I'd like to go out > really proud." > > http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2009/feb/26/rocky-mountain-news-closes-friday-final-edition/ > > -Melissa Hart > > > > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 14:12:47 -0500 From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu To: Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism Message-ID: <012101c999d8$8a74b5e0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> References: <988938.72357.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Message: 2 For the record, Sean Swift predicted some time ago that this was coming. Also for the record, and to be fair, Sean Swift still holds the record for the longest sports columns in Cardinal Points' history. Not sure how many trees he alone is responsible for killing, but I'd guesstimate quite a few! Murphy ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 2:03 PM Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism > > Melissa: > > It's a sad day for the people who are losing their jobs and such, I'll > agree with that. But, those on this list might remember that I've been > saying that this was coming for a long time. > > The thing is, there is still a place in this world for strong > investigative journalism. With so much TV news being aimed at the level of > lobotomized chimps, I'm amazed that no one has been able to market "news > for grown-ups" that is truly neutral in scope. > > Of course, the current print vehicles are largely handcuffed because > they're all owned by huge conglomerates who are as incompetent and lacking > in imagination as the leaders of the financial industry (and who often use > their news outlets as a means of distributing their outlook rather than, > you know, report the news). I mean, the internet is RIGHT THERE. > Especially given the environmental concerns of our age, it's ridiculous > that we're still killing forests to distribute news...I mean, what, were > scrolls not available? *smirk* The entities who "win" and who survive are > the ones who finally figure out how to utilize new technologies - Kindles, > etc. > > Instead of mourning the latest newspaper to die out (this won't be the > last, I assure you...there's more coming, and coming quick), the industry > should be getting its best minds together to figure out how best to use > the internet and electronic readers and all the other fancy stuff > available these days. > > - Sean Swift > Class of '00 > > > > > --- On Fri, 2/27/09, journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > wrote: > >> From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >> >> Subject: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism >> To: "Journalism List" >> Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 6:16 PM >> Everyone should check out the video on the Rocky Mountain >> News' web site that chronicles the paper's last day. >> Very depressing and eerie. The paper found out Thursday that >> today would be its last day. I can't imagine what that >> must feel like. (Though the day might be coming for all of >> us still in the newspaper biz!) Here's a quote from the >> editor: >> >> "...it's like playing music at your own funeral. >> It's an opportunity to >> make really sweet sounds or blow it. I'd like to go out >> really proud." >> >> http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2009/feb/26/rocky-mountain-news-closes-friday-final-edition/ >> >> -Melissa Hart >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Journalism-alumni mailing list >> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > > > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 12:19:05 -0800 (PST) From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism Message-ID: <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <012101c999d8$8a74b5e0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Message: 3 AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I happened to go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to write about sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?! That said, it's going to have to become more of a service industry, and there has to be serious marketing efforts (the days of people picking up a paper because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by providing a service (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff like: - Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our financial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the luckiest C- I ever got. - How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area's restaurants and service providers to alert readers to the most cost-effective options? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC. - If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to hear themselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate is crucial these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian in England has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called "minute-by-minute reports". The blogger goes over the highlights (with added snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from readers during the game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the game (why would you want to wait until the end to see the result?). Example: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games as well - http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236 If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I would absolutely read it. Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry can't come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard. - Swift ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 20:13:59 -0500 From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism Message-ID: <66baef7f0902281713i2cb1cf8v6371a8249dc04470@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <012101c999d8$8a74b5e0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001517573d46b970560464046aba MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Message: 4 --001517573d46b970560464046aba Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Swift speaks the truth. Per always. I'll also add that when I graduated nine years ago, I always assumed I would eventually wind up at a newspaper. Instead, due to various circumstances, I sort of backed into the Internet business, not even knowing HTML at the time (internet courses weren''t a required part of the English-Print Journalism major when I went to Plattsburgh). At first, I felt like I needed to work at a newspaper to validate that I was, in fact, doing something with my degree. But the longer I stayed at CBSSports.com, the more I noticed the flood of experienced newspaper writers, editors, etc. taking Internet jobs with our company and with our competitors. These were people with years of experience at very prominent broadsheets. Mike Coulter, if you're on this list, you can probably back me up on this. Eight years ago, there were times when I seriously second-guessed myself for not pursuing an entry-level newspaper job harder, and for sticking with the Internet instead. Today, I feel the opposite. I feel like I unwittingly got my foot in the door, ahead of what I expect will be a flood of very qualified former newspaper employees, who will just now be switching career paths. Don't get me wrong. The Internet hasn't been immune to the recession either. But as someone at our office recently put it, people are used to getting their information on the Internet now, and news generally hits the Internet very quickly. Newspapers, due to the turnaround time and the process involved in producing a daily, are essentially printing yesterday's news. And charging you to read it. The more people get used to super-fast news delivery on the Internet, the more ridiculous that business model sounds. Denny Burkholder '00 On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM, wrote: > > AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I happened > to go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to write > about sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?! > > That said, it's going to have to become more of a service industry, and > there has to be serious marketing efforts (the days of people picking up a > paper because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by providing a service > (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff like: > > - Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our > financial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the luckiest > C- I ever got. > > - How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area's > restaurants and service providers to alert readers to the most > cost-effective options? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC. > > - If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to hear > themselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate is > crucial these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian in > England has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called > "minute-by-minute reports". The blogger goes over the highlights (with added > snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from readers > during the game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the game (why > would you want to wait until the end to see the result?). > > Example: > http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live > > Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games as > well - http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236 > > If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I would > absolutely read it. > > Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry can't > come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard. > > - Swift > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > --001517573d46b970560464046aba Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Swift speaks the truth. Per always.

I'll also add that when I gr= aduated nine years ago, I always assumed I would eventually wind up at a ne= wspaper. Instead, due to various circumstances, I sort of backed into the I= nternet business, not even knowing HTML at the time (internet courses weren= ''t a required part of the English-Print Journalism major when I we= nt to Plattsburgh). At first, I felt like I needed to work at a newspaper t= o validate that I was, in fact, doing something with my degree.

But the longer I stayed at CBSSports.com, the more I noticed the flood = of experienced newspaper writers, editors, etc. taking Internet jobs with o= ur company and with our competitors. These were people with years of experi= ence at very prominent broadsheets. Mike Coulter, if you're on this lis= t, you can probably back me up on this.

Eight years ago, there were times when I seriously second-guessed mysel= f for not pursuing an entry-level newspaper job harder, and for sticking wi= th the Internet instead. Today, I feel the opposite. I feel like I unwittin= gly got my foot in the door, ahead of what I expect will be a flood of very= qualified former newspaper employees, who will just now be switching caree= r paths.

Don't get me wrong. The Internet hasn't been immune to the rece= ssion either. But as someone at our office recently put it, people are used= to getting their information on the Internet now, and news generally hits = the Internet very quickly. Newspapers, due to the turnaround time and the p= rocess involved in producing a daily, are essentially printing yesterday= 9;s news. And charging you to read it. The more people get used to super-fa= st news delivery on the Internet, the more ridiculous that business model s= ounds.

Denny Burkholder '00



On S= at, Feb 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM, <journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu= > wrote:

AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I happened t= o go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to write abou= t sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?!

That said, it's going to have to become more of a service industry, and= there has to be serious marketing efforts (the days of people picking up a= paper because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by pro= viding a service (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff= like:

- Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our finan= cial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the luckiest C- = I ever got.

- How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area's rest= aurants and service providers to alert readers to the most cost-effective o= ptions? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC.

- If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to hear th= emselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate is cruci= al these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian in Englan= d has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called "minute= -by-minute reports". The blogger goes over the highlights (with added = snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from readers d= uring the game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the game = (why would you want to wait until the end to see the result?).

Example: http://www.guardian.co.uk/foo= tball/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live

Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games as w= ell - htt= p://habsinsideout.com/node/16236

If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I would = absolutely read it.

Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry can&#= 39;t come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard.

- Swift




_______________________________________________
Journalism-alumni mailing list
Journalism-alumn= i@lists.plattsburgh.edu
http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism= -alumni

--001517573d46b970560464046aba-- ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 21:13:15 -0500 From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism Message-ID: <8549dc340902281813r686c6a63ga31f95df7a21b381@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <66baef7f0902281713i2cb1cf8v6371a8249dc04470@mail.gmail.com> References: <012101c999d8$8a74b5e0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <66baef7f0902281713i2cb1cf8v6371a8249dc04470@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Message: 5 For a wonderful explanation of the fine mess our economy finds itself in, check out http://haha.nu/interesting/the-credit-crisis-visualized/. Monica On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 8:13 PM, wrote: > Swift speaks the truth. Per always. > > I'll also add that when I graduated nine years ago, I always assumed I would > eventually wind up at a newspaper. Instead, due to various circumstances, I > sort of backed into the Internet business, not even knowing HTML at the time > (internet courses weren''t a required part of the English-Print Journalism > major when I went to Plattsburgh). At first, I felt like I needed to work at > a newspaper to validate that I was, in fact, doing something with my degree. > > But the longer I stayed at CBSSports.com, the more I noticed the flood of > experienced newspaper writers, editors, etc. taking Internet jobs with our > company and with our competitors. These were people with years of experience > at very prominent broadsheets. Mike Coulter, if you're on this list, you can > probably back me up on this. > > Eight years ago, there were times when I seriously second-guessed myself for > not pursuing an entry-level newspaper job harder, and for sticking with the > Internet instead. Today, I feel the opposite. I feel like I unwittingly got > my foot in the door, ahead of what I expect will be a flood of very > qualified former newspaper employees, who will just now be switching career > paths. > > Don't get me wrong. The Internet hasn't been immune to the recession either. > But as someone at our office recently put it, people are used to getting > their information on the Internet now, and news generally hits the Internet > very quickly. Newspapers, due to the turnaround time and the process > involved in producing a daily, are essentially printing yesterday's news. > And charging you to read it. The more people get used to super-fast news > delivery on the Internet, the more ridiculous that business model sounds. > > Denny Burkholder '00 > > > > On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM, > wrote: >> >> AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I happened >> to go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to write >> about sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?! >> >> That said, it's going to have to become more of a service industry, and >> there has to be serious marketing efforts (the days of people picking up a >> paper because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by providing a service >> (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff like: >> >> - Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our >> financial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the luckiest >> C- I ever got. >> >> - How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area's >> restaurants and service providers to alert readers to the most >> cost-effective options? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC. >> >> - If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to hear >> themselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate is >> crucial these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian in >> England has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called >> "minute-by-minute reports". The blogger goes over the highlights (with added >> snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from readers >> during the game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the game (why >> would you want to wait until the end to see the result?). >> >> Example: >> http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live >> >> Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games as >> well - http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236 >> >> If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I would >> absolutely read it. >> >> Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry can't >> come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard. >> >> - Swift >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Journalism-alumni mailing list >> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > -- Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come - Matt Groening ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Journalism-alumni mailing list Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni End of Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 8 ************************************************ --0-1956695519-1235874437=:26517 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Believe me, Swift, i have also seen the "writing on the wall" regarding the demise of newspapers. You're not the only sooth-sayer on that one. I'm someone who has also embraced change in my career and, like Denny hve taught myself new media skills to stay in the game. But after watching the poignant tribute on the Rocky's web site, I'm not convinced that I should not feel sad. It hit close to home, pure and simple.

A world without print media? Me no likey.
-melissa

Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.
-- Bertolt Brecht

--- On Sat, 2/28/09, journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu <journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu> wrote:
From: journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu <journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu>
Subject: Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 8
To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
Date: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 4:00 PM

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: sad day for journalism
   2. Re: sad day for journalism
   3. Re: sad day for journalism
   4. Re: sad day for journalism
   5. Re: sad day for journalism


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:59 -0800 (PST)
From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism
Message-ID: <988938.72357.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <515294.88403.qm@web52309.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
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Message:
 1


Melissa:

It's a sad day for the people who are losing their jobs and such, I'll
agree with that. But, those on this list might remember that I've been
saying that this was coming for a long time. 

The thing is, there is still a place in this world for strong investigative
journalism. With so much TV news being aimed at the level of lobotomized chimps,
I'm amazed that no one has been able to market "news for
grown-ups" that is truly neutral in scope. 

Of course, the current print vehicles are largely handcuffed because
they're all owned by huge conglomerates who are as incompetent and lacking
in imagination as the leaders of the financial industry (and who often use their
news outlets as a means of distributing their outlook rather than, you know,
report the news). I mean, the internet is RIGHT THERE. Especially given the
environmental concerns of our age, it's ridiculous that we're
 still
killing forests to distribute news...I mean, what, were scrolls not available?
*smirk*  The entities who "win" and who survive are the ones who
finally figure out how to utilize new technologies - Kindles, etc. 

Instead of mourning the latest newspaper to die out (this won't be the
last, I assure you...there's more coming, and coming quick), the industry
should be getting its best minds together to figure out how best to use the
internet and electronic readers and all the other fancy stuff available these
days.

- Sean Swift
Class of '00




--- On Fri, 2/27/09, journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
<journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu> wrote:

> From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
<journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>
> Subject: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism
> To: "Journalism
 List"
<journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>
> Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 6:16 PM
> Everyone should check out the video on the Rocky Mountain
> News' web site that chronicles the paper's last day.
> Very depressing and eerie. The paper found out Thursday that
> today would be its last day. I can't imagine what that
> must feel like. (Though the day might be coming for all of
> us still in the newspaper biz!) Here's a quote from the
> editor:
> 
> "...it's like playing music at your own funeral.
> It's an opportunity to
> make really sweet sounds or blow it. I'd like to go out
> really proud."
> 
>
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2009/feb/26/rocky-mountain-news-closes-friday-final-edition/
> 
> -Melissa Hart 
> 
> 
> 
>       _______________________________________________
> Journalism-alumni
 mailing list
> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni


      
------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 14:12:47 -0500
From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
To: <journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>
Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism
Message-ID: <012101c999d8$8a74b5e0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds>
References: <988938.72357.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
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For the record, Sean Swift predicted some time ago that this was coming. 
Also for the record, and to be fair, Sean Swift still holds the record for 
the longest sports columns in Cardinal
 Points' history. Not sure how many 
trees he alone is responsible for killing, but I'd guesstimate quite a few!

Murphy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>
To: <journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism


>
> Melissa:
>
> It's a sad day for the people who are losing their jobs and such,
I'll 
> agree with that. But, those on this list might remember that I've been

> saying that this was coming for a long time.
>
> The thing is, there is still a place in this world for strong 
> investigative journalism. With so much TV news being aimed at the level of

> lobotomized chimps, I'm amazed that no one has been able to market
"news 
> for grown-ups" that is truly neutral in scope.
>
> Of course,
 the current print vehicles are largely handcuffed because 
> they're all owned by huge conglomerates who are as incompetent and
lacking 
> in imagination as the leaders of the financial industry (and who often use

> their news outlets as a means of distributing their outlook rather than, 
> you know, report the news). I mean, the internet is RIGHT THERE. 
> Especially given the environmental concerns of our age, it's
ridiculous 
> that we're still killing forests to distribute news...I mean, what,
were 
> scrolls not available? *smirk*  The entities who "win" and who
survive are 
> the ones who finally figure out how to utilize new technologies - Kindles,

> etc.
>
> Instead of mourning the latest newspaper to die out (this won't be the

> last, I assure you...there's more coming, and coming quick), the
industry 
> should be getting its best minds
 together to figure out how best to use 
> the internet and electronic readers and all the other fancy stuff 
> available these days.
>
> - Sean Swift
> Class of '00
>
>
>
>
> --- On Fri, 2/27/09, journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu 
> <journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu> wrote:
>
>> From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu 
>> <journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>
>> Subject: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism
>> To: "Journalism List"
<journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>
>> Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 6:16 PM
>> Everyone should check out the video on the Rocky Mountain
>> News' web site that chronicles the paper's last day.
>> Very depressing and eerie. The paper found out Thursday that
>> today would be its last day. I can't imagine what
 that
>> must feel like. (Though the day might be coming for all of
>> us still in the newspaper biz!) Here's a quote from the
>> editor:
>>
>> "...it's like playing music at your own funeral.
>> It's an opportunity to
>> make really sweet sounds or blow it. I'd like to go out
>> really proud."
>>
>>
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2009/feb/26/rocky-mountain-news-closes-friday-final-edition/
>>
>> -Melissa Hart
>>
>>
>>
>>       _______________________________________________
>> Journalism-alumni mailing list
>> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
>> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Journalism-alumni mailing list
>
 Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 12:19:05 -0800 (PST)
From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism
Message-ID: <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <012101c999d8$8a74b5e0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
MIME-Version: 1.0
Precedence: list
Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
Message: 3


AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I happened to go
9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to write about sports.
Who else ever had THAT problem?!

That said, it's going to have to become more of a service industry, and
there has to be serious
 marketing efforts (the days of people picking up a paper
because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by providing a
service (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff like:

- Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our financial
collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the luckiest C- I ever
got. 

- How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area's
restaurants and service providers to alert readers to the most cost-effective
options? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC.

- If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to hear
themselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate is crucial
these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian in England has a
creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called "minute-by-minute
reports". The blogger goes over the highlights (with added
 snarky
comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from readers during the
game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the game (why would you
want to wait until the end to see the result?). 

Example:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live

Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games as well
- http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236

If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I would
absolutely read it. 

Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry can't
come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard.

- Swift



      
------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 20:13:59 -0500
From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism
Message-ID:
 <66baef7f0902281713i2cb1cf8v6371a8249dc04470@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <012101c999d8$8a74b5e0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds>
	 <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
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Message: 4

--001517573d46b970560464046aba
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Swift speaks the truth. Per always.

I'll also add that when I graduated nine years ago, I always assumed I
would
eventually wind up at a newspaper. Instead, due to various circumstances, I
sort of backed into the Internet business, not even knowing HTML at the time
(internet courses weren''t a required part of the English-Print
Journalism
major when I went to
 Plattsburgh). At first, I felt like I needed to work at
a newspaper to validate that I was, in fact, doing something with my degree.


But the longer I stayed at CBSSports.com, the more I noticed the flood of
experienced newspaper writers, editors, etc. taking Internet jobs with our
company and with our competitors. These were people with years of experience
at very prominent broadsheets. Mike Coulter, if you're on this list, you
can
probably back me up on this.

Eight years ago, there were times when I seriously second-guessed myself for
not pursuing an entry-level newspaper job harder, and for sticking with the
Internet instead. Today, I feel the opposite. I feel like I unwittingly got
my foot in the door, ahead of what I expect will be a flood of very
qualified former newspaper employees, who will just now be switching career
paths.

Don't get me wrong. The Internet hasn't been immune to the
 recession
either.
But as someone at our office recently put it, people are used to getting
their information on the Internet now, and news generally hits the Internet
very quickly. Newspapers, due to the turnaround time and the process
involved in producing a daily, are essentially printing yesterday's news.
And charging you to read it. The more people get used to super-fast news
delivery on the Internet, the more ridiculous that business model sounds.

Denny Burkholder '00



On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM,
<journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>wrote:

>
> AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I happened
> to go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to write
> about sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?!
>
> That said, it's going to have to become more of a service industry,
and
> there has to be serious
 marketing efforts (the days of people picking up a
> paper because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by
providing a service
> (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff like:
>
> - Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our
> financial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the
luckiest
> C- I ever got.
>
> - How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area's
> restaurants and service providers to alert readers to the most
> cost-effective options? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC.
>
> - If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to hear
> themselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate is
> crucial these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian in
> England has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called
>
 "minute-by-minute reports". The blogger goes over the highlights
(with added
> snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from readers
> during the game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the
game (why
> would you want to wait until the end to see the result?).
>
> Example:
>
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live
>
> Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games as
> well - http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236
>
> If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I would
> absolutely read it.
>
> Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry
can't
> come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard.
>
> - Swift
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
 Journalism-alumni mailing list
> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni
>

--001517573d46b970560464046aba
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Swift speaks the truth. Per always.<br><br>I&#39;ll also add
that when I gr=
aduated nine years ago, I always assumed I would eventually wind up at a ne=
wspaper. Instead, due to various circumstances, I sort of backed into the I=
nternet business, not even knowing HTML at the time (internet courses weren=
&#39;&#39;t a required part of the English-Print Journalism major when
I we=
nt to Plattsburgh). At first, I felt like I needed to work at a newspaper t=
o validate that I was, in fact, doing something with my degree. <br>
<br>But the longer I stayed at CBSSports.com, the more I noticed
 the
flood =
of experienced newspaper writers, editors, etc. taking Internet jobs with o=
ur company and with our competitors. These were people with years of experi=
ence at very prominent broadsheets. Mike Coulter, if you&#39;re on this
lis=
t, you can probably back me up on this. <br>
<br>Eight years ago, there were times when I seriously second-guessed
mysel=
f for not pursuing an entry-level newspaper job harder, and for sticking wi=
th the Internet instead. Today, I feel the opposite. I feel like I unwittin=
gly got my foot in the door, ahead of what I expect will be a flood of very=
 qualified former newspaper employees, who will just now be switching caree=
r paths.<br>
<br>Don&#39;t get me wrong. The Internet hasn&#39;t been immune
to the rece=
ssion either. But as someone at our office recently put it, people are used=
 to getting their information on the
 Internet now, and news generally hits =
the Internet very quickly. Newspapers, due to the turnaround time and the p=
rocess involved in producing a daily, are essentially printing
yesterday&#3=
9;s news. And charging you to read it. The more people get used to super-fa=
st news delivery on the Internet, the more ridiculous that business model s=
ounds. <br>
<br>Denny Burkholder
&#39;00<br><br><br><br><div
class=3D"gmail_quote">On S=
at, Feb 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM,  <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:journ=
alism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu">journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu=
</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px
solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br>
AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however
 that I happened t=
o go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to write abou=
t sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?!<br>
<br>
That said, it&#39;s going to have to become more of a service industry,
and=
 there has to be serious marketing efforts (the days of people picking up a=
 paper because it&#39;s &quot;the paper&quot; are over). What I
mean by pro=
viding a service (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff=
 like:<br>

<br>
- Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our finan=
cial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the luckiest C- =
I ever got.<br>
<br>
- How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area&#39;s
rest=
aurants and service providers to alert readers to the most cost-effective o=
ptions? That would be WONDERFUL here in
 NYC.<br>
<br>
- If the internet has proven anything, it&#39;s that people love to hear
th=
emselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate is cruci=
al these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian in Englan=
d has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called
&quot;minute=
-by-minute reports&quot;. The blogger goes over the highlights (with added
=
snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from readers d=
uring the game. It&#39;s fun, and invaluable if you can&#39;t see the
game =
(why would you want to wait until the end to see the result?).<br>

<br>
Example:
 <a
href=3D"http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-=
roma-champions-league-live"
target=3D"_blank">http://www.guardian.co.uk/foo=
tball/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live</a><br>
<br>
Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games as w=
ell - <a href=3D"http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236"
target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://habsinsideout.com/node/16236</a><br>
<br>
If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP&#39;s website, I would
=
absolutely read it.<br>
<br>
Given the fact that I am no genius, I&#39;m stunned that the industry
can&#=
39;t come up with ways to get with the times. It&#39;s not that
hard.<br>
<br>
-
 Swift<br>
<div><div></div><div
class=3D"Wj3C7c"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Journalism-alumni mailing list<br>
<a
href=3D"mailto:Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu">Journalism-alumn=
i@lists.plattsburgh.edu</a><br>
<a
href=3D"http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni"=

target=3D"_blank">http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism=
-alumni</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>

--001517573d46b970560464046aba--
------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 21:13:15 -0500
From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism
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Message: 5

For a wonderful explanation of the fine mess our economy finds itself
in, check out http://haha.nu/interesting/the-credit-crisis-visualized/.

Monica

On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 8:13 PM,
<journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu> wrote:
> Swift speaks the truth. Per always.
>
> I'll also add that when I graduated nine years ago, I always assumed I
would
> eventually
 wind up at a newspaper. Instead, due to various circumstances,
I
> sort of backed into the Internet business, not even knowing HTML at the
time
> (internet courses weren''t a required part of the English-Print
Journalism
> major when I went to Plattsburgh). At first, I felt like I needed to work
at
> a newspaper to validate that I was, in fact, doing something with my
degree.
>
> But the longer I stayed at CBSSports.com, the more I noticed the flood of
> experienced newspaper writers, editors, etc. taking Internet jobs with our
> company and with our competitors. These were people with years of
experience
> at very prominent broadsheets. Mike Coulter, if you're on this list,
you can
> probably back me up on this.
>
> Eight years ago, there were times when I seriously second-guessed myself
for
> not pursuing an entry-level newspaper job harder, and for
 sticking with
the
> Internet instead. Today, I feel the opposite. I feel like I unwittingly
got
> my foot in the door, ahead of what I expect will be a flood of very
> qualified former newspaper employees, who will just now be switching
career
> paths.
>
> Don't get me wrong. The Internet hasn't been immune to the
recession either.
> But as someone at our office recently put it, people are used to getting
> their information on the Internet now, and news generally hits the
Internet
> very quickly. Newspapers, due to the turnaround time and the process
> involved in producing a daily, are essentially printing yesterday's
news.
> And charging you to read it. The more people get used to super-fast news
> delivery on the Internet, the more ridiculous that business model sounds.
>
> Denny Burkholder '00
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at
 3:19 PM,
<journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>
> wrote:
>>
>> AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I
happened
>> to go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to
write
>> about sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?!
>>
>> That said, it's going to have to become more of a service
industry, and
>> there has to be serious marketing efforts (the days of people picking
up a
>> paper because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by
providing a service
>> (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff like:
>>
>> - Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our
>> financial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the
luckiest
>> C- I ever got.
>>
>> - How about a feature where local beat reporters
 survey the area's
>> restaurants and service providers to alert readers to the most
>> cost-effective options? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC.
>>
>> - If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to
hear
>> themselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate
is
>> crucial these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian
in
>> England has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called
>> "minute-by-minute reports". The blogger goes over the
highlights (with added
>> snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from
readers
>> during the game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the
game (why
>> would you want to wait until the end to see the result?).
>>
>>
 Example:
>>
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live
>>
>> Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games
as
>> well - http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236
>>
>> If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I
would
>> absolutely read it.
>>
>> Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry
can't
>> come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard.
>>
>> - Swift
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Journalism-alumni mailing list
>> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
>> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
 Journalism-alumni mailing list
> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni
>
>



-- 
Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it
flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come -
Matt Groening
------------------------------

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End of Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 8
************************************************

--0-1956695519-1235874437=:26517-- ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Journalism-alumni mailing list Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni End of Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 9 ************************************************ _______________________________________________ Journalism-alumni mailing list Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Mon Mar 2 11:40:39 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Mon Mar 2 10:39:32 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] RE: Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 9 In-Reply-To: <0C2A332401AB7446851F34AD8014936303BD5E7C@EXCHANGE.Syracuse.Local> References: <0C2A332401AB7446851F34AD8014936303BD5E7C@EXCHANGE.Syracuse.Local> Message-ID: <8549dc340903020840k1f440df1rb8caf8170631c6e3@mail.gmail.com> I'll add that all this mourning over the death of print is needless. Things change. This isn't the death of journalism. Nobody is still bitter over the death of the telegram, because e-mail is a much better and more efficient experience. We're all going to have to adapt, and it's going to be awful for a lot of people for a long time before it gets better. I'll be out of a job along with all the other print journalists if I haven't found something else before my company starts to cut editorial staff. I'm considering a career change because the idea of fighting so many out-of-work journalists for a job is daunting. Still, I get most of my news from CNN.com and the BBC website because it beats having to wait for a paper. And I really, really want the new Kindle. The demise of print is bad for those of us who depend on that paycheck, but it'll turn out to be quite a good thing for media consumers. Monica On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 11:05 AM, wrote: > I'll add two cents: > > Too many newspaper folks think that everything revolves around editorial content. > > Truth be told, the least prepared members of newspaper organizations to react to the changing business model were the advertising departments. Even today, there are those who don't know what Craig's List is, let alone AdSense or Facebook or -- you name it. > > Ad departments never saw this coming, and if they did, they ignored the threat to the business model. > > sac > > -----Original Message----- > From: journalism-alumni-bounces@lists.plattsburgh.edu [mailto:journalism-alumni-bounces@lists.plattsburgh.edu] On Behalf Of journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Sent: 3/1/2009 11:44 PM > To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Subject: [jou-alumni] RE: Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 9 > > OK, Denny, I'll answer the call. :) > > While I agree that the newspaper model is quickly becoming obsolete, that video is still one of the more depressing things I've seen since graduating. Even in that final clip, though, it becomes clear why things are falling apart. > > Denial? > > Maybe. > > The editors interviewed barely acknowledge what is, in my opinion, a newspaper's most crucial flaw... speed. What was considered fast 20 years ago is unforgivably slow today. Microwaves cook food in seconds, digital cameras can give you printed, portrait-quality images in minutes, and people get their news as it breaks, on their cell phone. > > "It's the economy!" > > ?No, it's not. > > It may be speeding up the inevitable, but the economy isn't what's killing papers. The internet is destroying print journalism, and there's no way that newspapers can keep up with the speed of the web. > > The one Rocky Mountain News editor that does mention the internet makes reference to unskilled "bloggers"... like we're all a bunch of rouge, ponytailed internet nerds typing away from a darkened basement. > > More denial? > > Probably. > > I'm shocked that some people don't know this yet, but as Denny suggested, there are a lot of legitimate news people in the web business now. Like Mr. Burkholder, I'm at CBSSports.com, and we've got a ton of old school newspaper people on the desk. > > I did spend a few years reporting at a daily before I got here, and I can tell you, there's not much we do differently than an ordinary newspaper. We have reporters, copy editors and a managing editor. AP style is still the law of the land. We have daily budget meetings. Hell, we even have those clich? clocks on the wall like you see in movies... the ones where you can see what time it is in Beijing or Paris. (We, of course, have our time zone labeled after a local bar. It's 10:42 p.m. at Sharky's.) > > Alcoholics? > > Nope. We don't go to meetings. > > Right now, newspaper executives have to be honest with themselves. Ink and paper is dead, and papers need to move quickly to figure out a way to stay relevant in the digital world. > > The positive part of this situation is that the internet has no boundaries. I know that the people I've worked with in newspapers are creative and resourceful enough to figure out a way to take advantage of new technology, and the first one that does will be heralded as the genius who saved an industry. > > Me? > > Ha! > > Maybe newspapers will go extinct, but their absence will open up a huge void in the way of local news. If it's done right, maybe a network of websites dedicated to local reporting could take off? Maybe doing something that really plays up an investigative angle would work? How about something super interactive that takes advantage of social networking ideas? > > Eh... Like I said, I'm not that genius, but someone out there is. Oh, and if anyone reading this makes it big off one of my ideas, I'll expect some kind of well-compensated, advisory gig! > > - Mike Coulter '04 > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: journalism-alumni-bounces@lists.plattsburgh.edu [mailto:journalism-alumni-bounces@lists.plattsburgh.edu] On Behalf Of journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 9:17 PM > To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Subject: Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 9 > > Send Journalism-alumni mailing list submissions to > ? ? ? ?journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > ? ? ? ?http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ? ? ? ?journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ? ? ? ?journalism-alumni-owner@lists.plattsburgh.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Journalism-alumni digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > ? 1. Re: Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 8 > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 18:27:17 -0800 (PST) > From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Subject: [jou-alumni] Re: Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 8 > Message-ID: <170364.26517.qm@web52310.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > In-Reply-To: <20090301010056.15568A33E3@lists.plattsburgh.edu> > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1956695519-1235874437=:26517" > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Precedence: list > Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Message: 1 > > > --0-1956695519-1235874437=:26517 > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Believe me, Swift, i have also seen the "writing on the wall" regarding the demise of newspapers. You're not the only sooth-sayer on that one. I'm someone who has also embraced change in my career and, like Denny hve taught myself new media skills to stay in the game. But after watching the poignant tribute on the Rocky's web site, I'm not convinced that I should not feel sad. It hit close to home, pure and simple. > > A world without print media? Me no likey. > -melissa > > Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life. > > -- Bertolt Brecht > > --- On Sat, 2/28/09, journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu wrote: > From: journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Subject: Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 8 > To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Date: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 4:00 PM > > Send Journalism-alumni mailing list submissions to > ? ? ? ?journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > ? ? ? ?http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ? ? ? ?journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ? ? ? ?journalism-alumni-owner@lists.plattsburgh.edu > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Journalism-alumni digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > ? 1. Re: sad day for journalism > ? 2. Re: sad day for journalism > ? 3. Re: sad day for journalism > ? 4. Re: sad day for journalism > ? 5. Re: sad day for journalism > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:59 -0800 (PST) > From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism > Message-ID: <988938.72357.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > In-Reply-To: <515294.88403.qm@web52309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Precedence: list > Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Message: 1 > > > Melissa: > > It's a sad day for the people who are losing their jobs and such, I'll > agree with that. But, those on this list might remember that I've been > saying that this was coming for a long time. > > The thing is, there is still a place in this world for strong investigative > journalism. With so much TV news being aimed at the level of lobotomized chimps, > I'm amazed that no one has been able to market "news for > grown-ups" that is truly neutral in scope. > > Of course, the current print vehicles are largely handcuffed because > they're all owned by huge conglomerates who are as incompetent and lacking > in imagination as the leaders of the financial industry (and who often use their > news outlets as a means of distributing their outlook rather than, you know, > report the news). I mean, the internet is RIGHT THERE. Especially given the > environmental concerns of our age, it's ridiculous that we're still > killing forests to distribute news...I mean, what, were scrolls not available? > *smirk* ?The entities who "win" and who survive are the ones who > finally figure out how to utilize new technologies - Kindles, etc. > > Instead of mourning the latest newspaper to die out (this won't be the > last, I assure you...there's more coming, and coming quick), the industry > should be getting its best minds together to figure out how best to use the > internet and electronic readers and all the other fancy stuff available these > days. > > - Sean Swift > Class of '00 > > > > > --- On Fri, 2/27/09, journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > wrote: > >> From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > >> Subject: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism >> To: "Journalism List" > >> Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 6:16 PM >> Everyone should check out the video on the Rocky Mountain >> News' web site that chronicles the paper's last day. >> Very depressing and eerie. The paper found out Thursday that >> today would be its last day. I can't imagine what that >> must feel like. (Though the day might be coming for all of >> us still in the newspaper biz!) Here's a quote from the >> editor: >> >> "...it's like playing music at your own funeral. >> It's an opportunity to >> make really sweet sounds or blow it. I'd like to go out >> really proud." >> >> > http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2009/feb/26/rocky-mountain-news-closes-friday-final-edition/ >> >> -Melissa Hart >> >> >> >> ? ? ? _______________________________________________ >> Journalism-alumni mailing list >> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 14:12:47 -0500 > From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > To: > Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism > Message-ID: <012101c999d8$8a74b5e0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> > References: <988938.72357.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; > ? ? ? ?format=flowed; > ? ? ? ?charset="iso-8859-1"; > ? ? ? ?reply-type=original > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Precedence: list > Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Message: 2 > > For the record, Sean Swift predicted some time ago that this was coming. > Also for the record, and to be fair, Sean Swift still holds the record for > the longest sports columns in Cardinal Points' history. Not sure how many > trees he alone is responsible for killing, but I'd guesstimate quite a few! > > Murphy > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 2:03 PM > Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism > > >> >> Melissa: >> >> It's a sad day for the people who are losing their jobs and such, > I'll >> agree with that. But, those on this list might remember that I've been > >> saying that this was coming for a long time. >> >> The thing is, there is still a place in this world for strong >> investigative journalism. With so much TV news being aimed at the level of > >> lobotomized chimps, I'm amazed that no one has been able to market > "news >> for grown-ups" that is truly neutral in scope. >> >> Of course, the current print vehicles are largely handcuffed because >> they're all owned by huge conglomerates who are as incompetent and > lacking >> in imagination as the leaders of the financial industry (and who often use > >> their news outlets as a means of distributing their outlook rather than, >> you know, report the news). I mean, the internet is RIGHT THERE. >> Especially given the environmental concerns of our age, it's > ridiculous >> that we're still killing forests to distribute news...I mean, what, > were >> scrolls not available? *smirk* ?The entities who "win" and who > survive are >> the ones who finally figure out how to utilize new technologies - Kindles, > >> etc. >> >> Instead of mourning the latest newspaper to die out (this won't be the > >> last, I assure you...there's more coming, and coming quick), the > industry >> should be getting its best minds together to figure out how best to use >> the internet and electronic readers and all the other fancy stuff >> available these days. >> >> - Sean Swift >> Class of '00 >> >> >> >> >> --- On Fri, 2/27/09, journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >> wrote: >> >>> From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >>> >>> Subject: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism >>> To: "Journalism List" > >>> Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 6:16 PM >>> Everyone should check out the video on the Rocky Mountain >>> News' web site that chronicles the paper's last day. >>> Very depressing and eerie. The paper found out Thursday that >>> today would be its last day. I can't imagine what that >>> must feel like. (Though the day might be coming for all of >>> us still in the newspaper biz!) Here's a quote from the >>> editor: >>> >>> "...it's like playing music at your own funeral. >>> It's an opportunity to >>> make really sweet sounds or blow it. I'd like to go out >>> really proud." >>> >>> > http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2009/feb/26/rocky-mountain-news-closes-friday-final-edition/ >>> >>> -Melissa Hart >>> >>> >>> >>> ? ? ? _______________________________________________ >>> Journalism-alumni mailing list >>> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >>> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Journalism-alumni mailing list >> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni >> > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 12:19:05 -0800 (PST) > From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism > Message-ID: <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > In-Reply-To: <012101c999d8$8a74b5e0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Precedence: list > Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Message: 3 > > > AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I happened to go > 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to write about sports. > Who else ever had THAT problem?! > > That said, it's going to have to become more of a service industry, and > there has to be serious marketing efforts (the days of people picking up a paper > because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by providing a > service (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff like: > > - Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our financial > collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the luckiest C- I ever > got. > > - How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area's > restaurants and service providers to alert readers to the most cost-effective > options? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC. > > - If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to hear > themselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate is crucial > these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian in England has a > creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called "minute-by-minute > reports". The blogger goes over the highlights (with added snarky > comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from readers during the > game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the game (why would you > want to wait until the end to see the result?). > > Example: > http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live > > Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games as well > - http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236 > > If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I would > absolutely read it. > > Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry can't > come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard. > > - Swift > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 20:13:59 -0500 > From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism > Message-ID: <66baef7f0902281713i2cb1cf8v6371a8249dc04470@mail.gmail.com> > In-Reply-To: <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > References: <012101c999d8$8a74b5e0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> > ? ? ? ? <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001517573d46b970560464046aba > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Precedence: list > Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Message: 4 > > --001517573d46b970560464046aba > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > Swift speaks the truth. Per always. > > I'll also add that when I graduated nine years ago, I always assumed I > would > eventually wind up at a newspaper. Instead, due to various circumstances, I > sort of backed into the Internet business, not even knowing HTML at the time > (internet courses weren''t a required part of the English-Print > Journalism > major when I went to Plattsburgh). At first, I felt like I needed to work at > a newspaper to validate that I was, in fact, doing something with my degree. > > > But the longer I stayed at CBSSports.com, the more I noticed the flood of > experienced newspaper writers, editors, etc. taking Internet jobs with our > company and with our competitors. These were people with years of experience > at very prominent broadsheets. Mike Coulter, if you're on this list, you > can > probably back me up on this. > > Eight years ago, there were times when I seriously second-guessed myself for > not pursuing an entry-level newspaper job harder, and for sticking with the > Internet instead. Today, I feel the opposite. I feel like I unwittingly got > my foot in the door, ahead of what I expect will be a flood of very > qualified former newspaper employees, who will just now be switching career > paths. > > Don't get me wrong. The Internet hasn't been immune to the recession > either. > But as someone at our office recently put it, people are used to getting > their information on the Internet now, and news generally hits the Internet > very quickly. Newspapers, due to the turnaround time and the process > involved in producing a daily, are essentially printing yesterday's news. > And charging you to read it. The more people get used to super-fast news > delivery on the Internet, the more ridiculous that business model sounds. > > Denny Burkholder '00 > > > > On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM, > wrote: > >> >> AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I happened >> to go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to write >> about sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?! >> >> That said, it's going to have to become more of a service industry, > and >> there has to be serious marketing efforts (the days of people picking up a >> paper because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by > providing a service >> (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff like: >> >> - Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our >> financial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the > luckiest >> C- I ever got. >> >> - How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area's >> restaurants and service providers to alert readers to the most >> cost-effective options? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC. >> >> - If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to hear >> themselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate is >> crucial these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian in >> England has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called >> "minute-by-minute reports". The blogger goes over the highlights > (with added >> snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from readers >> during the game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the > game (why >> would you want to wait until the end to see the result?). >> >> Example: >> > http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live >> >> Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games as >> well - http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236 >> >> If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I would >> absolutely read it. >> >> Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry > can't >> come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard. >> >> - Swift >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Journalism-alumni mailing list >> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni >> > > --001517573d46b970560464046aba > Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Swift speaks the truth. Per always.

I'll also add > that when I gr= > aduated nine years ago, I always assumed I would eventually wind up at a ne= > wspaper. Instead, due to various circumstances, I sort of backed into the I= > nternet business, not even knowing HTML at the time (internet courses weren= > ''t a required part of the English-Print Journalism major when > I we= > nt to Plattsburgh). At first, I felt like I needed to work at a newspaper t= > o validate that I was, in fact, doing something with my degree.
>
But the longer I stayed at CBSSports.com, the more I noticed the > flood = > of experienced newspaper writers, editors, etc. taking Internet jobs with o= > ur company and with our competitors. These were people with years of experi= > ence at very prominent broadsheets. Mike Coulter, if you're on this > lis= > t, you can probably back me up on this.
>
Eight years ago, there were times when I seriously second-guessed > mysel= > f for not pursuing an entry-level newspaper job harder, and for sticking wi= > th the Internet instead. Today, I feel the opposite. I feel like I unwittin= > gly got my foot in the door, ahead of what I expect will be a flood of very= > ?qualified former newspaper employees, who will just now be switching caree= > r paths.
>
Don't get me wrong. The Internet hasn't been immune > to the rece= > ssion either. But as someone at our office recently put it, people are used= > ?to getting their information on the Internet now, and news generally hits = > the Internet very quickly. Newspapers, due to the turnaround time and the p= > rocess involved in producing a daily, are essentially printing > yesterday= > 9;s news. And charging you to read it. The more people get used to super-fa= > st news delivery on the Internet, the more ridiculous that business model s= > ounds.
>
Denny Burkholder > '00



class=3D"gmail_quote">On S= > at, Feb 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM, ?< href=3D"mailto:journ= > alism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu">journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu= > > wrote:
>
solid rgb(204, = > 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
> AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I happened t= > o go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to write abou= > t sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?!
>
> That said, it's going to have to become more of a service industry, > and= > ?there has to be serious marketing efforts (the days of people picking up a= > ?paper because it's "the paper" are over). What I > mean by pro= > viding a service (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff= > ?like:
> >
> - Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our finan= > cial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the luckiest C- = > I ever got.
>
> - How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area's > rest= > aurants and service providers to alert readers to the most cost-effective o= > ptions? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC.
>
> - If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to hear > th= > emselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate is cruci= > al these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian in Englan= > d has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called > "minute= > -by-minute reports". The blogger goes over the highlights (with added > = > snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from readers d= > uring the game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the > game = > (why would you want to wait until the end to see the result?).
> >
> Example: href=3D"http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-= > roma-champions-league-live" > target=3D"_blank">http://www.guardian.co.uk/foo= > tball/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live
>
> Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games as w= > ell - target=3D"_blank">htt= > p://habsinsideout.com/node/16236
>
> If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I would > = > absolutely read it.
>
> Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry > can&#= > 39;t come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that > hard.
>
> - Swift
>

> > --001517573d46b970560464046aba-- > ------------------------------ > > Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 21:13:15 -0500 > From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism > Message-ID: <8549dc340902281813r686c6a63ga31f95df7a21b381@mail.gmail.com> > In-Reply-To: <66baef7f0902281713i2cb1cf8v6371a8249dc04470@mail.gmail.com> > References: <012101c999d8$8a74b5e0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> > ? ? ? ? <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com> > ? ? ? ? <66baef7f0902281713i2cb1cf8v6371a8249dc04470@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Precedence: list > Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Message: 5 > > For a wonderful explanation of the fine mess our economy finds itself > in, check out http://haha.nu/interesting/the-credit-crisis-visualized/. > > Monica > > On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 8:13 PM, > wrote: >> Swift speaks the truth. Per always. >> >> I'll also add that when I graduated nine years ago, I always assumed I > would >> eventually wind up at a newspaper. Instead, due to various circumstances, > I >> sort of backed into the Internet business, not even knowing HTML at the > time >> (internet courses weren''t a required part of the English-Print > Journalism >> major when I went to Plattsburgh). At first, I felt like I needed to work > at >> a newspaper to validate that I was, in fact, doing something with my > degree. >> >> But the longer I stayed at CBSSports.com, the more I noticed the flood of >> experienced newspaper writers, editors, etc. taking Internet jobs with our >> company and with our competitors. These were people with years of > experience >> at very prominent broadsheets. Mike Coulter, if you're on this list, > you can >> probably back me up on this. >> >> Eight years ago, there were times when I seriously second-guessed myself > for >> not pursuing an entry-level newspaper job harder, and for sticking with > the >> Internet instead. Today, I feel the opposite. I feel like I unwittingly > got >> my foot in the door, ahead of what I expect will be a flood of very >> qualified former newspaper employees, who will just now be switching > career >> paths. >> >> Don't get me wrong. The Internet hasn't been immune to the > recession either. >> But as someone at our office recently put it, people are used to getting >> their information on the Internet now, and news generally hits the > Internet >> very quickly. Newspapers, due to the turnaround time and the process >> involved in producing a daily, are essentially printing yesterday's > news. >> And charging you to read it. The more people get used to super-fast news >> delivery on the Internet, the more ridiculous that business model sounds. >> >> Denny Burkholder '00 >> >> >> >> On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM, > >> wrote: >>> >>> AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I > happened >>> to go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to > write >>> about sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?! >>> >>> That said, it's going to have to become more of a service > industry, and >>> there has to be serious marketing efforts (the days of people picking > up a >>> paper because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by > providing a service >>> (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff like: >>> >>> - Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our >>> financial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the > luckiest >>> C- I ever got. >>> >>> - How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area's >>> restaurants and service providers to alert readers to the most >>> cost-effective options? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC. >>> >>> - If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to > hear >>> themselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate > is >>> crucial these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian > in >>> England has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called >>> "minute-by-minute reports". The blogger goes over the > highlights (with added >>> snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from > readers >>> during the game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the > game (why >>> would you want to wait until the end to see the result?). >>> >>> Example: >>> > http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live >>> >>> Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games > as >>> well - http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236 >>> >>> If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I > would >>> absolutely read it. >>> >>> Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry > can't >>> come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard. >>> >>> - Swift >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Journalism-alumni mailing list >>> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >>> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Journalism-alumni mailing list >> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni >> >> > > > > -- > Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it > flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come - > Matt Groening > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > > End of Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 8 > ************************************************ > > > > > --0-1956695519-1235874437=:26517 > Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii > >
Believe me, Swift, i have also seen the "writing on the wall" regarding the demise of newspapers. You're not the only sooth-sayer on that one. I'm someone who has also embraced change in my career and, like Denny hve taught myself new media skills to stay in the game. But after watching the poignant tribute on the Rocky's web site, I'm not convinced that I should not feel sad. It hit close to home, pure and simple.

A world without print media? Me no likey.
-melissa

Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life.
> -- Bertolt Brecht

--- On Sat, 2/28/09, journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu <journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu> wrote:
From: journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu <journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu>
Subject: Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 8
To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
Date: Saturday, February 28, 2009, 4:00 PM

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Today's Topics:

 ? 1. Re: sad day for journalism
 ? 2. Re: sad day for journalism
 ? 3. Re: sad day for journalism
 ? 4. Re: sad day for journalism
 ? 5. Re: sad day for journalism


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:03:59 -0800 (PST)
From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism
Message-ID: <988938.72357.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <515294.88403.qm@web52309.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
MIME-Version: 1.0
Precedence: list
Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
Message:
> ?1


Melissa:

It's a sad day for the people who are losing their jobs and such, I'll
agree with that. But, those on this list might remember that I've been
saying that this was coming for a long time. 

The thing is, there is still a place in this world for strong investigative
journalism. With so much TV news being aimed at the level of lobotomized chimps,
I'm amazed that no one has been able to market "news for
grown-ups" that is truly neutral in scope. 

Of course, the current print vehicles are largely handcuffed because
they're all owned by huge conglomerates who are as incompetent and lacking
in imagination as the leaders of the financial industry (and who often use their
news outlets as a means of distributing their outlook rather than, you know,
report the news). I mean, the internet is RIGHT THERE. Especially given the
environmental concerns of our age, it's ridiculous that we're
> ?still
killing forests to distribute news...I mean, what, were scrolls not available?
*smirk* ?The entities who "win" and who survive are the ones who
finally figure out how to utilize new technologies - Kindles, etc. 

Instead of mourning the latest newspaper to die out (this won't be the
last, I assure you...there's more coming, and coming quick), the industry
should be getting its best minds together to figure out how best to use the
internet and electronic readers and all the other fancy stuff available these
days.

- Sean Swift
Class of '00




--- On Fri, 2/27/09, journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
<journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu> wrote:

> From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
<journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>
> Subject: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism
> To: "Journalism
> ?List"
<journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>
> Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 6:16 PM
> Everyone should check out the video on the Rocky Mountain
> News' web site that chronicles the paper's last day.
> Very depressing and eerie. The paper found out Thursday that
> today would be its last day. I can't imagine what that
> must feel like. (Though the day might be coming for all of
> us still in the newspaper biz!) Here's a quote from the
> editor:
> 
> "...it's like playing music at your own funeral.
> It's an opportunity to
> make really sweet sounds or blow it. I'd like to go out
> really proud."
> 
>
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2009/feb/26/rocky-mountain-news-closes-friday-final-edition/
> 
> -Melissa Hart 
> 
> 
> 
> ? ? ? _______________________________________________
> Journalism-alumni
> ?mailing list
> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni


 ? ? ?
------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 14:12:47 -0500
From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
To: <journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>
Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism
Message-ID: <012101c999d8$8a74b5e0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds>
References: <988938.72357.qm@web51402.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;
 ? format=flowed;
 ? ? ?charset="iso-8859-1";
 ? ? ? reply-type=original
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Precedence: list
Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
Message: 2

For the record, Sean Swift predicted some time ago that this was coming. 
Also for the record, and to be fair, Sean Swift still holds the record for 
the longest sports columns in Cardinal
> ?Points' history. Not sure how many 
trees he alone is responsible for killing, but I'd guesstimate quite a few!

Murphy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>
To: <journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>
Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism


>
> Melissa:
>
> It's a sad day for the people who are losing their jobs and such,
I'll 
> agree with that. But, those on this list might remember that I've been

> saying that this was coming for a long time.
>
> The thing is, there is still a place in this world for strong 
> investigative journalism. With so much TV news being aimed at the level of

> lobotomized chimps, I'm amazed that no one has been able to market
"news 
> for grown-ups" that is truly neutral in scope.
>
> Of course,
> ?the current print vehicles are largely handcuffed because 
> they're all owned by huge conglomerates who are as incompetent and
lacking 
> in imagination as the leaders of the financial industry (and who often use

> their news outlets as a means of distributing their outlook rather than, 
> you know, report the news). I mean, the internet is RIGHT THERE. 
> Especially given the environmental concerns of our age, it's
ridiculous 
> that we're still killing forests to distribute news...I mean, what,
were 
> scrolls not available? *smirk* ?The entities who "win" and who
survive are 
> the ones who finally figure out how to utilize new technologies - Kindles,

> etc.
>
> Instead of mourning the latest newspaper to die out (this won't be the

> last, I assure you...there's more coming, and coming quick), the
industry 
> should be getting its best minds
> ?together to figure out how best to use 
> the internet and electronic readers and all the other fancy stuff 
> available these days.
>
> - Sean Swift
> Class of '00
>
>
>
>
> --- On Fri, 2/27/09, journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu 
> <journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu> wrote:
>
>> From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu 
>> <journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>
>> Subject: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism
>> To: "Journalism List"
<journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>
>> Date: Friday, February 27, 2009, 6:16 PM
>> Everyone should check out the video on the Rocky Mountain
>> News' web site that chronicles the paper's last day.
>> Very depressing and eerie. The paper found out Thursday that
>> today would be its last day. I can't imagine what
> ?that
>> must feel like. (Though the day might be coming for all of
>> us still in the newspaper biz!) Here's a quote from the
>> editor:
>>
>> "...it's like playing music at your own funeral.
>> It's an opportunity to
>> make really sweet sounds or blow it. I'd like to go out
>> really proud."
>>
>>
http://www.rockymountainnews.com/news/2009/feb/26/rocky-mountain-news-closes-friday-final-edition/
>>
>> -Melissa Hart
>>
>>
>>
>> ? ? ? _______________________________________________
>> Journalism-alumni mailing list
>> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
>> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Journalism-alumni mailing list
>
> ?Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni
> 

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 12:19:05 -0800 (PST)
From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism
Message-ID: <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
In-Reply-To: <012101c999d8$8a74b5e0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
MIME-Version: 1.0
Precedence: list
Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
Message: 3


AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I happened to go
9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to write about sports.
Who else ever had THAT problem?!

That said, it's going to have to become more of a service industry, and
there has to be serious
> ?marketing efforts (the days of people picking up a paper
because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by providing a
service (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff like:

- Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our financial
collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the luckiest C- I ever
got. 

- How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area's
restaurants and service providers to alert readers to the most cost-effective
options? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC.

- If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to hear
themselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate is crucial
these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian in England has a
creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called "minute-by-minute
reports". The blogger goes over the highlights (with added
> ?snarky
comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from readers during the
game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the game (why would you
want to wait until the end to see the result?). 

Example:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live

Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games as well
- http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236

If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I would
absolutely read it. 

Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry can't
come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard.

- Swift



 ? ? ?
------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 20:13:59 -0500
From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism
Message-ID:
> ?<66baef7f0902281713i2cb1cf8v6371a8249dc04470@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
References: <012101c999d8$8a74b5e0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds>
 ? ? ? <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001517573d46b970560464046aba
MIME-Version: 1.0
Precedence: list
Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
Message: 4

--001517573d46b970560464046aba
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Swift speaks the truth. Per always.

I'll also add that when I graduated nine years ago, I always assumed I
would
eventually wind up at a newspaper. Instead, due to various circumstances, I
sort of backed into the Internet business, not even knowing HTML at the time
(internet courses weren''t a required part of the English-Print
Journalism
major when I went to
> ?Plattsburgh). At first, I felt like I needed to work at
a newspaper to validate that I was, in fact, doing something with my degree.


But the longer I stayed at CBSSports.com, the more I noticed the flood of
experienced newspaper writers, editors, etc. taking Internet jobs with our
company and with our competitors. These were people with years of experience
at very prominent broadsheets. Mike Coulter, if you're on this list, you
can
probably back me up on this.

Eight years ago, there were times when I seriously second-guessed myself for
not pursuing an entry-level newspaper job harder, and for sticking with the
Internet instead. Today, I feel the opposite. I feel like I unwittingly got
my foot in the door, ahead of what I expect will be a flood of very
qualified former newspaper employees, who will just now be switching career
paths.

Don't get me wrong. The Internet hasn't been immune to the
> ?recession
either.
But as someone at our office recently put it, people are used to getting
their information on the Internet now, and news generally hits the Internet
very quickly. Newspapers, due to the turnaround time and the process
involved in producing a daily, are essentially printing yesterday's news.
And charging you to read it. The more people get used to super-fast news
delivery on the Internet, the more ridiculous that business model sounds.

Denny Burkholder '00



On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM,
<journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>wrote:

>
> AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I happened
> to go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to write
> about sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?!
>
> That said, it's going to have to become more of a service industry,
and
> there has to be serious
> ?marketing efforts (the days of people picking up a
> paper because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by
providing a service
> (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff like:
>
> - Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our
> financial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the
luckiest
> C- I ever got.
>
> - How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area's
> restaurants and service providers to alert readers to the most
> cost-effective options? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC.
>
> - If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to hear
> themselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate is
> crucial these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian in
> England has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called
>
> ?"minute-by-minute reports". The blogger goes over the highlights
(with added
> snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from readers
> during the game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the
game (why
> would you want to wait until the end to see the result?).
>
> Example:
>
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live
>
> Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games as
> well - http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236
>
> If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I would
> absolutely read it.
>
> Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry
can't
> come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard.
>
> - Swift
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> ?Journalism-alumni mailing list
> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni
>

--001517573d46b970560464046aba
Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Swift speaks the truth. Per always.<br><br>I&#39;ll also add
that when I gr=
aduated nine years ago, I always assumed I would eventually wind up at a ne=
wspaper. Instead, due to various circumstances, I sort of backed into the I=
nternet business, not even knowing HTML at the time (internet courses weren=
&#39;&#39;t a required part of the English-Print Journalism major when
I we=
nt to Plattsburgh). At first, I felt like I needed to work at a newspaper t=
o validate that I was, in fact, doing something with my degree. <br>
<br>But the longer I stayed at CBSSports.com, the more I noticed
> ?the
flood =
of experienced newspaper writers, editors, etc. taking Internet jobs with o=
ur company and with our competitors. These were people with years of experi=
ence at very prominent broadsheets. Mike Coulter, if you&#39;re on this
lis=
t, you can probably back me up on this. <br>
<br>Eight years ago, there were times when I seriously second-guessed
mysel=
f for not pursuing an entry-level newspaper job harder, and for sticking wi=
th the Internet instead. Today, I feel the opposite. I feel like I unwittin=
gly got my foot in the door, ahead of what I expect will be a flood of very=
 qualified former newspaper employees, who will just now be switching caree=
r paths.<br>
<br>Don&#39;t get me wrong. The Internet hasn&#39;t been immune
to the rece=
ssion either. But as someone at our office recently put it, people are used=
 to getting their information on the
> ?Internet now, and news generally hits =
the Internet very quickly. Newspapers, due to the turnaround time and the p=
rocess involved in producing a daily, are essentially printing
yesterday&#3=
9;s news. And charging you to read it. The more people get used to super-fa=
st news delivery on the Internet, the more ridiculous that business model s=
ounds. <br>
<br>Denny Burkholder
&#39;00<br><br><br><br><div
class=3D"gmail_quote">On S=
at, Feb 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM, ?<span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a
href=3D"mailto:journ=
alism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu">journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu=
</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px
solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"><br>
AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however
> ?that I happened t=
o go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to write abou=
t sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?!<br>
<br>
That said, it&#39;s going to have to become more of a service industry,
and=
 there has to be serious marketing efforts (the days of people picking up a=
 paper because it&#39;s &quot;the paper&quot; are over). What I
mean by pro=
viding a service (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff=
 like:<br>

<br>
- Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our finan=
cial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the luckiest C- =
I ever got.<br>
<br>
- How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area&#39;s
rest=
aurants and service providers to alert readers to the most cost-effective o=
ptions? That would be WONDERFUL here in
> ?NYC.<br>
<br>
- If the internet has proven anything, it&#39;s that people love to hear
th=
emselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate is cruci=
al these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian in Englan=
d has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called
&quot;minute=
-by-minute reports&quot;. The blogger goes over the highlights (with added
=
snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from readers d=
uring the game. It&#39;s fun, and invaluable if you can&#39;t see the
game =
(why would you want to wait until the end to see the result?).<br>

<br>
Example:
> ?<a
href=3D"http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-=
roma-champions-league-live"
target=3D"_blank">http://www.guardian.co.uk/foo=
tball/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live</a><br>
<br>
Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games as w=
ell - <a href=3D"http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236"
target=3D"_blank">htt=
p://habsinsideout.com/node/16236</a><br>
<br>
If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP&#39;s website, I would
=
absolutely read it.<br>
<br>
Given the fact that I am no genius, I&#39;m stunned that the industry
can&#=
39;t come up with ways to get with the times. It&#39;s not that
hard.<br>
<br>
-
> ?Swift<br>
<div><div></div><div
class=3D"Wj3C7c"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Journalism-alumni mailing list<br>
<a
href=3D"mailto:Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu">Journalism-alumn=
i@lists.plattsburgh.edu</a><br>
<a
href=3D"http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni"=

target=3D"_blank">http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism=
-alumni</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>

--001517573d46b970560464046aba--
------------------------------

Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 21:13:15 -0500
From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism
Message-ID:
> ?<8549dc340902281813r686c6a63ga31f95df7a21b381@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <66baef7f0902281713i2cb1cf8v6371a8249dc04470@mail.gmail.com>
References: <012101c999d8$8a74b5e0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds>
 ? ? ? <494650.12776.qm@web51403.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
 ? ? ? ? <66baef7f0902281713i2cb1cf8v6371a8249dc04470@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Precedence: list
Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
Message: 5

For a wonderful explanation of the fine mess our economy finds itself
in, check out http://haha.nu/interesting/the-credit-crisis-visualized/.

Monica

On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 8:13 PM,
<journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu> wrote:
> Swift speaks the truth. Per always.
>
> I'll also add that when I graduated nine years ago, I always assumed I
would
> eventually
> ?wind up at a newspaper. Instead, due to various circumstances,
I
> sort of backed into the Internet business, not even knowing HTML at the
time
> (internet courses weren''t a required part of the English-Print
Journalism
> major when I went to Plattsburgh). At first, I felt like I needed to work
at
> a newspaper to validate that I was, in fact, doing something with my
degree.
>
> But the longer I stayed at CBSSports.com, the more I noticed the flood of
> experienced newspaper writers, editors, etc. taking Internet jobs with our
> company and with our competitors. These were people with years of
experience
> at very prominent broadsheets. Mike Coulter, if you're on this list,
you can
> probably back me up on this.
>
> Eight years ago, there were times when I seriously second-guessed myself
for
> not pursuing an entry-level newspaper job harder, and for
> ?sticking with
the
> Internet instead. Today, I feel the opposite. I feel like I unwittingly
got
> my foot in the door, ahead of what I expect will be a flood of very
> qualified former newspaper employees, who will just now be switching
career
> paths.
>
> Don't get me wrong. The Internet hasn't been immune to the
recession either.
> But as someone at our office recently put it, people are used to getting
> their information on the Internet now, and news generally hits the
Internet
> very quickly. Newspapers, due to the turnaround time and the process
> involved in producing a daily, are essentially printing yesterday's
news.
> And charging you to read it. The more people get used to super-fast news
> delivery on the Internet, the more ridiculous that business model sounds.
>
> Denny Burkholder '00
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at
> ?3:19 PM,
<journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>
> wrote:
>>
>> AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I
happened
>> to go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to
write
>> about sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?!
>>
>> That said, it's going to have to become more of a service
industry, and
>> there has to be serious marketing efforts (the days of people picking
up a
>> paper because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by
providing a service
>> (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff like:
>>
>> - Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our
>> financial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the
luckiest
>> C- I ever got.
>>
>> - How about a feature where local beat reporters
> ?survey the area's
>> restaurants and service providers to alert readers to the most
>> cost-effective options? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC.
>>
>> - If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to
hear
>> themselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate
is
>> crucial these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian
in
>> England has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called
>> "minute-by-minute reports". The blogger goes over the
highlights (with added
>> snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from
readers
>> during the game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the
game (why
>> would you want to wait until the end to see the result?).
>>
>>
> ?Example:
>>
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live
>>
>> Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games
as
>> well - http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236
>>
>> If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I
would
>> absolutely read it.
>>
>> Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry
can't
>> come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard.
>>
>> - Swift
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Journalism-alumni mailing list
>> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
>> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> ?Journalism-alumni mailing list
> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni
>
>



-- 
Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it
flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come -
Matt Groening
------------------------------

_______________________________________________
Journalism-alumni mailing list
Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni


End of Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 8
************************************************

> > > > > --0-1956695519-1235874437=:26517-- > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > > End of Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 26, Issue 9 > ************************************************ > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > -- Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come - Matt Groening From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Mon Mar 2 12:24:26 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Mon Mar 2 11:11:54 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] Message-ID: I agree with some of you who said it's not the economy that's killing off print media, it's the old business model. Newspapers should have started taking advantage of the Web a long time ago, and I don't mean just setting up a site, I mean coming up with a subscription model. I don't understand why we should give away our work for free on the Web. Yes, bloggers and various citizens-turned-journalists will always provide the Internet with free content, but that's not quality journalism. Don't get me wrong, I blog for work and I joined various online groups like Linked In and Twitter to lead discussions with people in the industry I cover, etc. But that's still not pure journalism, it's my opinion, at best. A lot of the times, it's just a rant. Journalism is not dead. It just needs to reinvent itself. Oksana Poltavets (518) 332-4173 _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups to meet. http://windowslive.com/online/groups?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_groups_032009-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/pipermail/journalism-alumni/attachments/20090302/a1d12748/attachment.htm From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Mon Mar 2 12:47:42 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Mon Mar 2 11:35:10 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism Message-ID: <8968374.1236016062893.JavaMail.root@mswamui-billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> All- I found a link to the story about NEwsday planning to charge for online access. Here it is, as promised: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/26/AR2009022603150.html Gene -----Original Message----- >From: Gene Lomoriello >Sent: Mar 1, 2009 1:10 AM >To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism > >Interesting chain, all. While I agree with Swift that we're seeing something that was predictable a while ago finally beginning to pick up speed, the demise of newsprint operations is not inevitable. What's long been necessary is reinvention at two levels -- newspapers should have moved online early and charged (WSJ and Consumer Reports have both been successful at this, and Newsday has announced that its going to try -- I'll look for the link I saw) and differentiation between the online and print products. > >One model would be online as realm of the breaking news and searchable databases (this is where the role in the community/state/region gets fulfilled -- searchable archives of obits, local sports data, the restaurant poll info someone in this chain proposed, you name it. Be a searchable resource for readers.) Then you've got web as 3 things: breaking news source, online community, powerful tool. In contrast, your print edition should play the analytical role that's often sorely lacking -- give readers pages, not inches, that tear apart in detail county budget proposals. Your circ will be smaller, but it will be loyal, and it will be a defined, educated, high-income niche that your ad dept. can attract advertisers with. And it will only partially overlap with the online subscriber base. Cleverly use some content from each vehicle in the other, to expose readers to what goes on in both places, and you will see joint subscriber ship climb, not one cannibalizing the other. > >That's a drastically oversimplified - and admittedly easier said than done - version of how 70-plus-year-old Consumer Reports magazine (circ approx. 4 million) built consumerreports.org into a paid subscription website with 2.7 million subscribers. (Yes, I spent six years there, managing the communications department. Started out with seven years in weekly/daily papers.) > >I hope I've provided some optimism on what is a sad day for those of us who love print. But it is possible to perhaps lose entirely or completely transform the media vehicle (daily paper) and reinvent the news organization that used to produce it to produce another vehicle for delivery of quality journalism. There's an old saying that I won't get exactly right, but its basically that the horse-buggy companies didn't survive the change to automobiles because they saw themselves as in the horse-buggy business, not the personal transportation business. That applies well to newspapers today. > >best wishes, >Gene Lomoriello >class of '89 > > >-----Original Message----- >>From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >>Sent: Feb 28, 2009 10:35 PM >>To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >>Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism >> >>I recall Denny telling the story of covering a sporting event for his >>employer where the reporters for the dailies were laughing at him for >>working for a Web-based media organization. I'm guessing they aren't >>laughing now. >> >>Murphy >> >>> Swift speaks the truth. Per always. >>> >>> I'll also add that when I graduated nine years ago, I always assumed I >>> would >>> eventually wind up at a newspaper. Instead, due to various circumstances, >>> I >>> sort of backed into the Internet business, not even knowing HTML at the >>> time >>> (internet courses weren''t a required part of the English-Print Journalism >>> major when I went to Plattsburgh). At first, I felt like I needed to work >>> at >>> a newspaper to validate that I was, in fact, doing something with my >>> degree. >>> >>> >>> But the longer I stayed at CBSSports.com, the more I noticed the flood of >>> experienced newspaper writers, editors, etc. taking Internet jobs with our >>> company and with our competitors. These were people with years of >>> experience >>> at very prominent broadsheets. Mike Coulter, if you're on this list, you >>> can >>> probably back me up on this. >>> >>> Eight years ago, there were times when I seriously second-guessed myself >>> for >>> not pursuing an entry-level newspaper job harder, and for sticking with >>> the >>> Internet instead. Today, I feel the opposite. I feel like I unwittingly >>> got >>> my foot in the door, ahead of what I expect will be a flood of very >>> qualified former newspaper employees, who will just now be switching >>> career >>> paths. >>> >>> Don't get me wrong. The Internet hasn't been immune to the recession >>> either. >>> But as someone at our office recently put it, people are used to getting >>> their information on the Internet now, and news generally hits the >>> Internet >>> very quickly. Newspapers, due to the turnaround time and the process >>> involved in producing a daily, are essentially printing yesterday's news. >>> And charging you to read it. The more people get used to super-fast news >>> delivery on the Internet, the more ridiculous that business model sounds. >>> >>> Denny Burkholder '00 >>> >>> >>> >>> On Sat, Feb 28, 2009 at 3:19 PM, >>> wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> AHAHAHAHA....touche, sir. I do submit to the jury however that I >>>> happened >>>> to go 9 semesters where no one in a hundred-mile radius wanted to write >>>> about sports. Who else ever had THAT problem?! >>>> >>>> That said, it's going to have to become more of a service industry, and >>>> there has to be serious marketing efforts (the days of people picking up >>>> a >>>> paper because it's "the paper" are over). What I mean by providing a >>>> service >>>> (other than reporting the news, which is a given) is stuff like: >>>> >>>> - Why has there never been anything explaining the reasons behind our >>>> financial collapse in language we can understand? Economics was the >>>> luckiest >>>> C- I ever got. >>>> >>>> - How about a feature where local beat reporters survey the area's >>>> restaurants and service providers to alert readers to the most >>>> cost-effective options? That would be WONDERFUL here in NYC. >>>> >>>> - If the internet has proven anything, it's that people love to hear >>>> themselves talk/see themselves type. Inviting readers to participate is >>>> crucial these days (Exhibit A: the sports blog Deadspin). The Guardian >>>> in >>>> England has a creative and fun feature for big soccer matches called >>>> "minute-by-minute reports". The blogger goes over the highlights (with >>>> added >>>> snarky comments), and includes the best e-mails that come in from >>>> readers >>>> during the game. It's fun, and invaluable if you can't see the game (why >>>> would you want to wait until the end to see the result?). >>>> >>>> Example: >>>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2009/feb/24/arsenal-roma-champions-league-live >>>> >>>> Even the normally-austere Montreal Gazette does it for Canadiens games >>>> as >>>> well - http://habsinsideout.com/node/16236 >>>> >>>> If someone did that for Cardinal hockey games on CP's website, I would >>>> absolutely read it. >>>> >>>> Given the fact that I am no genius, I'm stunned that the industry can't >>>> come up with ways to get with the times. It's not that hard. >>>> >>>> - Swift >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Journalism-alumni mailing list >>>> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >>>> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Journalism-alumni mailing list >>> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >>> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni >>> >> >> >>Shawn W. Murphy >>Associate Professor of Journalism >>Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points >>Chair, Department of Journalism >>Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism >>103-A Yokum Hall >>SUNY Plattsburgh >>101 Broad St. >>Plattsburgh, NY 12901 >>518-564-2422, phone >>518-564-2105, fax >>shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >>Journalism-alumni mailing list >>Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >>http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Mon Mar 2 13:15:46 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Mon Mar 2 12:03:13 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <66baef7f0903021015i2e3e03c2q7f397ea8f01cf774@mail.gmail.com> Oksana, I think a lot of newspaper professionals initially wrote off the Internet as a bunch of untrained, unprofessional "average joes" who pass themselves off as real journalists. Rather than using their own websites as a way to promote the print edition, they could have been repurposing the print content and monetizing it online, to make up for any decline in print ad revenue or the rise in the cost of newsprint.There is a lot of garbage on the Internet, but if professional journalists put together a great website and promote it intelligently, I believe they'll reap the benefits. If you built it, they will come. I actually believe that's what will happen within the next five to ten years. I think you're going to see the cream of the newspaper crop rise again on a variety of websites, and the semi-pro bloggers will eventually find themselves marginalized and less relevant. Everybody can muster an opinion, but not everybody can be a good journalist. People will see the difference and great reporters/editors will absolutely find work if they open themselves up to the idea of working online. You raise a great point about giving away your work for free on the web, although subscriptions aren't necessarily the only way to make a career out of it. Selling advertising is the obvious alternative. In fact, paid subscriptions are a lot riskier as a business model, because there are endless ways for people to get information for free. Unless your content is exceptionally unique to the point of making people willing to pay for an Internet subscription, you're better off ramping up your ad sales department (or classifieds, obits, personals... all of those old newspaper standbys can still exist as paid services online) and keeping the main content free to casually surfing eyeballs. I'm with you in thinking that journalism is not dead. To believe that journalism has died, I would have to believe that newspapers were the end-all, be-all of journalism. To believe that, I'd have to disregard the credentials and hard work of everyone I work with, which is a concession I just can't make. Denny On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 12:24 PM, wrote: > I agree with some of you who said it's not the economy that's killing off > print media, it's the old business model. Newspapers should have started > taking advantage of the Web a long time ago, and I don't mean just setting > up a site, I mean coming up with a subscription model. I don't understand > why we should give away our work for free on the Web. > > Yes, bloggers and various citizens-turned-journalists will always provide > the Internet with free content, but that's not quality journalism. Don't get > me wrong, I blog for work and I joined various online groups like Linked In > and Twitter to lead discussions with people in the industry I cover, etc. > But that's still not pure journalism, it's my opinion, at best. A lot of the > times, it's just a rant. > > Journalism is not dead. It just needs to reinvent itself. > > Oksana Poltavets > (518) 332-4173 > > > > ------------------------------ > Windows Live? Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups to > meet. Check it out. > > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/pipermail/journalism-alumni/attachments/20090302/712dd0e6/attachment.htm From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Mon Mar 2 10:17:39 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Mon Mar 2 12:05:07 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] None Message-ID: <198016.66069.qm@web51709.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Monica, I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you about these changes being good for consumers. Consumers already have a hard enough time figuring out truth from fiction, because they don't know the difference between a news article and a blog. News articles are written by professionals trained in the gathering of information. Blogs are written by people with an axe to grind and an internet connection. Consumers also believe TV news to be more accurate and reliable than print -- which, I can tell you from experience from every time I've competed with a TV station for a story, is 100% wrong. The morning the Illinois governor scandal broke, I was at a speech by Pres. Bush, and had to explain -- very slowly, using small words -- the Illinois situation to the TV reporter whose hair and suit and makeup and voice were perfectly professional. A totalitarian system of news - in which the information is controlled by the state - is evil and corrupt. A true democracy - in which the information is controlled by anybody with the urge to control information on any particular day - is anarchy, which will allow corruption to have a field day because while bloggers know how to express their opinions, they don't know how to file a FOIL. Newspapers provide a medium, in which the information-gathering responsibility is concentrated in people who have the training and know-how to get the truth to the public. And, despite public perception, do so in a relatively straight-forward way; I've never had time for personal agendas AND deadlines in the same day. Denver will be fine, for now, as they have a backup paper. What scares me is what will happen when the smaller city papers start folding en masse, then when the Denvers and other two-paper cities start losing them both. Who's going to keep your city council in line? The gadfly at the council meetings? No, nobody listens to him because he's too militant. Your local ABC affiliate? No, they're too busy with "Shame on You" consumer pieces in which they accost contractors who never finished a roof that someone paid for, and ruining reputations whether warranted or not because it makes for good ratings. CNN? No; even if you're in a major city (except maybe Atlanta), CNN would rather spend their energy promoting "D.L. Hughley Breaks the News." I'm very, very scared about the future of information. - Greg Marano Cardinal Points, class of 2001 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/pipermail/journalism-alumni/attachments/20090302/85a3810d/attachment.htm From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Mon Mar 2 13:58:43 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Mon Mar 2 12:46:13 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] RE: Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 27, Issue 6 In-Reply-To: <20090302170005.8BB19A33E8@lists.plattsburgh.edu> References: <20090302170005.8BB19A33E8@lists.plattsburgh.edu> Message-ID: I think Oksana is absolutely right, "reinvention" is the key here. However, I don't believe subscriptions will be a major part of this new world of journalism. To be completely honest, subscriptions seem like part of the antiquated newspaper model that people have been so reluctant to let go of. Advertising is where the money's at. If sites like Yahoo, ESPN and CNN give all their work away, what makes you think that anyone would pay money for what you have? I'm sure those companies considered moving to subscriptions, but quickly figured out that it wasn't the best way to go. Now, maybe you do have a product that is unique or important enough that subscriptions might work... it better be good. As I mentioned before; one advantage that the internet has is the convenience. If you make users start pulling out credit cards and logging in just to get to your site, you're going to scare a lot of people away. (*There are a lot of free sites that charge subscription fees for upgraded features, like fantasy football or news alerts sent directly to your mobile device.) Most sites are lucky if they can get users to spend a few minutes a day viewing content. That's probably the time it takes to read one story, so there's not a lot of room for error there. And if the people across town have a free site, or the TV station is covering the story that users are interested in, you've priced yourself out of the market at $9.99 a month. People can always find a way to get what they want for free on the net, and unless you want to start a porn site, I don't see that changing. MICHAEL COULTER COMMUNITY EDITOR CBS Interactive - Sports T 954.351.2120 Ext. 4431 C 954.654.4116 2200 W. Cypress Creek Rd., Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33309 Cbs CBSSports.com | MaxPreps.com | NCAA.com | CBS College Sports -----Original Message----- From: journalism-alumni-bounces@lists.plattsburgh.edu [mailto:journalism-alumni-bounces@lists.plattsburgh.edu] On Behalf Of journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 12:00 PM To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Subject: Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 27, Issue 6 Send Journalism-alumni mailing list submissions to journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu You can reach the person managing the list at journalism-alumni-owner@lists.plattsburgh.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Journalism-alumni digest..." Today's Topics: 1. 2. Re: sad day for journalism ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:24:26 -0500 From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu To: Subject: [jou-alumni] Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_4e057435-2e07-4435-a32b-4e9965ec4662_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Message: 1 --_4e057435-2e07-4435-a32b-4e9965ec4662_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree with some of you who said it's not the economy that's killing off p= rint media=2C it's the old business model. Newspapers should have started t= aking advantage of the Web a long time ago=2C and I don't mean just setting= up a site=2C I mean coming up with a subscription model. I don't understan= d why we should give away our work for free on the Web. Yes=2C bloggers and various citizens-turned-journalists will always provide= the Internet with free content=2C but that's not quality journalism. Don't= get me wrong=2C I blog for work and I joined various online groups like Li= nked In and Twitter to lead discussions with people in the industry I cover= =2C etc. But that's still not pure journalism=2C it's my opinion=2C at best= . A lot of the times=2C it's just a rant.=20 Journalism is not dead. It just needs to reinvent itself.=20 Oksana Poltavets (518) 332-4173=20 _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live=99 Groups: Create an online spot for your favorite groups to m= eet. http://windowslive.com/online/groups?ocid=3DTXT_TAGLM_WL_groups_032009= --_4e057435-2e07-4435-a32b-4e9965ec4662_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree with some of you who said it's not the economy that's killing off p= rint media=2C it's the old business model. Newspapers should have started t= aking advantage of the Web a long time ago=2C and I don't mean just setting= up a site=2C I mean coming up with a subscription model. I don't understan= d why we should give away our work for free on the Web.

Yes=2C blogg= ers and various citizens-turned-journalists will always provide the Interne= t with free content=2C but that's not quality journalism. Don't get me wron= g=2C I blog for work and I joined various online groups like Linked In and = Twitter to lead discussions with people in the industry I cover=2C etc. But= that's still not pure journalism=2C it's my opinion=2C at best. A lot of t= he times=2C it's just a rant.

Journalism is not dead. It just needs= to reinvent itself.

Oksana Poltavets
(518) 332-4173



Windows Live=99 Groups: Create a= n online spot for your favorite groups to meet. Che= ck it out. = --_4e057435-2e07-4435-a32b-4e9965ec4662_-- ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 2 Mar 2009 12:47:42 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu To: Gene Lomoriello , journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism Message-ID: <8968374.1236016062893.JavaMail.root@mswamui-billy.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Message: 2 All- I found a link to the story about NEwsday planning to charge for online access. Here it is, as promised: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/26/AR200902 2603150.html Gene -----Original Message----- >From: Gene Lomoriello >Sent: Mar 1, 2009 1:10 AM >To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] sad day for journalism > >Interesting chain, all. While I agree with Swift that we're seeing something that was predictable a while ago finally beginning to pick up speed, the demise of newsprint operations is not inevitable. What's long been necessary is reinvention at two levels -- newspapers should have moved online early and charged (WSJ and Consumer Reports have both been successful at this, and Newsday has announced that its going to try -- I'll look for the link I saw) and differentiation between the online and print products. > >One model would be online as realm of the breaking news and searchable databases (this is where the role in the community/state/region gets fulfilled -- searchable archives of obits, local sports data, the restaurant poll info someone in this chain proposed, you name it. Be a searchable resource for readers.) Then you've got web as 3 things: breaking news source, online community, powerful tool. In contrast, your print edition should play the analytical role that's often sorely lacking -- give readers pages, not inches, that tear apart in detail county budget proposals. Your circ will be smaller, but it will be loyal, and it will be a defined, educated, high-income niche that your ad dept. can attract advertisers with. And it will only partially overlap with the online subscriber base. Cleverly use some content from each vehicle in the other, to expose readers to what goes on in both places, and you will see joint subscriber ship climb, not one cannibalizing the other. > >That's a drastically oversimplified - and admittedly easier said than done - version of how 70-plus-year-old Consumer Reports magazine (circ approx. 4 million) built consumerreports.org into a paid subscription website with 2.7 million subscribers. (Yes, I spent six years there, managing the communications department. Started out with seven years in weekly/daily papers.) > >I hope I've provided some optimism on what is a sad day for those of us who love print. But it is possible to perhaps lose entirely or completely transform the media vehicle (daily paper) and reinvent the news organization that used to produce it to produce another vehicle for delivery of quality journalism. There's an old saying that I won't get exactly right, but its basically that the horse-buggy companies didn't survive the change to automobiles because they saw themselves as in the horse-buggy business, not the personal transportation business. That applies well to newspapers today. > >best wishes, >Gene Lomoriello >class of '89 > > From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Mon Mar 2 11:11:47 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Mon Mar 2 12:59:14 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] None In-Reply-To: <198016.66069.qm@web51709.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <320765.17950.qm@web51406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I see what you're saying Greg, but I have to disagree with you in the notion that blog = idiot with axe to grind. I agree that most individual journalists are hard-working, decent people who try to maintain a sense of impartial balance in their pieces. However, the loudest voices sure are the partisan morons, aren't they? A guy like Andrew Sullivan is known mainly as a blogger, and he would identify himself as that as well. However, he also writes for The Atlantic and the Times of London. How do you reconcile the two? The former gives him room to express his opinions, but a guy like that has opinions that are better-informed than many traditional journalists. I know sports aren't your bag, but it exists there, too. Everyone knows who a mouth-breather like Jay Mariotti is, and most papers in the country would hire him in a heartbeat. But, I'd lay even odds that a high-quality blogger knows their sports to a degree that someone like Mariotti never will. That is not to say that the great mainstream writers like Tim Smith from the NY Daily News (who is among the better boxing writers out there) don't know their stuff...it just means that the guys who blog at 5 Ounces of Pain know their combat sports as well. I also agree that a total democracy is anarchy, and I agree that people from older generations may not be able to speak to the differences between a rant and a researched piece. However, you can't tell me that kids who were born with a computer in the house won't be able to. I don't worry about the future of information...I'm STOKED about it. If it takes a sea of blogs to drown out an uninformed idiot like Mike Lupica, then bring them on, baby. Finally (and a bit unrelated), I don't think there's anything wrong with a good uninformed rant every now and then. I hate to keep coming back to sports, but take the example of the SuperSonics being wrenched out of Seattle...with the NBA as a complicit partner in it. I can absolutely envision a scenario where David Stern leans on the mainstream press to shut up about it (wouldn't want anyone to lose their courtside access) and let it blow over. But, from mega-bloggers like Bill Simmons at ESPN to smaller Seattle-area ones, fans from around the league got to drill down into the injustice of it and really feel the level of anger felt by those fans. That was the real story, and the mainstream guys did a piss-poor job of reporting it. - Swift --- On Mon, 3/2/09, journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu wrote: > From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Subject: [jou-alumni] None > To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Date: Monday, March 2, 2009, 1:17 PM > Monica, > I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you > about these changes being good for consumers. Consumers > already have a hard enough time figuring out truth from > fiction, because they don't know the difference between > a news article and a blog. News articles are written by > professionals trained in the gathering of information. Blogs > are written by people with an axe to grind and an internet > connection. > > Consumers also believe TV news to be more accurate and > reliable than print -- which, I can tell you from experience > from every time I've competed with a TV station for a > story, is 100% wrong. The morning the Illinois governor > scandal broke, I was at a speech by Pres. Bush, and had to > explain -- very slowly, using small words -- the Illinois > situation to the TV reporter whose hair and suit and makeup > and voice were perfectly professional. > > A totalitarian system of news - in which the information is > controlled by the state - is evil and corrupt. A true > democracy - in which the information is controlled by > anybody with the urge to control information on any > particular day - is anarchy, which will allow corruption to > have a field day because while bloggers know how to express > their opinions, they don't know how to file a FOIL. > Newspapers provide a medium, in which the > information-gathering responsibility is concentrated in > people who have the training and know-how to get the truth > to the public. And, despite public perception, do so in a > relatively straight-forward way; I've never had time for > personal agendas AND deadlines in the same day. > > Denver will be fine, for now, as they have a backup paper. > What scares me is what will happen when the smaller city > papers start folding en masse, then when the Denvers and > other two-paper cities start losing them both. Who's > going to keep your city council in line? The gadfly at the > council meetings? No, nobody listens to him because he's > too militant. Your local ABC affiliate? No, they're too > busy with "Shame on You" consumer pieces in which > they accost contractors who never finished a roof that > someone paid for, and ruining reputations whether warranted > or not because it makes for good ratings. CNN? No; even if > you're in a major city (except maybe Atlanta), CNN would > rather spend their energy promoting "D.L. Hughley > Breaks the News." > > I'm very, very scared about the future of information. > - Greg Marano > Cardinal Points, class of 2001 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Mon Mar 2 14:17:15 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Mon Mar 2 13:04:43 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] None In-Reply-To: <198016.66069.qm@web51709.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <198016.66069.qm@web51709.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8549dc340903021117n53f13b8cjbc84a4456e4043cd@mail.gmail.com> Greg, What you're describing is a problem with education, not a problem with online media. The consumers who don't understand the difference between a blog and an article are the same consumers who don't understand the difference between an article and a column or editorial. Ultimately, we have to trust people to understand what they're looking at: If they don't, they're not going to understand it no matter what form it takes. Monica Patitucci Class of '99 On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 1:17 PM, wrote: > Monica, > I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you about these changes being > good for consumers. Consumers already have a hard enough time figuring out > truth from fiction, because they don't know the difference between a news > article and a blog. News articles are written by professionals trained in > the gathering of information. Blogs are written by people with an axe to > grind and an internet connection. > > Consumers also believe TV news to be more accurate and reliable than print > -- which, I can tell you from experience from every time I've competed with > a TV station for a story, is 100% wrong. The morning the Illinois governor > scandal broke, I was at a speech by Pres. Bush, and had to explain -- very > slowly, using small words -- the Illinois situation to the TV reporter whose > hair and suit and makeup and voice were perfectly professional. > > A totalitarian system of news - in which the information is controlled by > the state - is evil and corrupt. A true democracy - in which the information > is controlled by anybody with the urge to control information on any > particular day - is anarchy, which will allow corruption to have a field day > because while bloggers know how to express their opinions, they don't know > how to file a FOIL. Newspapers provide a medium, in which the > information-gathering responsibility is concentrated in people who have the > training and know-how to get the truth to the public. And, despite public > perception, do so in a relatively straight-forward way; I've never had time > for personal agendas AND deadlines in the same day. > > Denver will be fine, for now, as they have a backup paper. What scares me is > what will happen when the smaller city papers start folding en masse, then > when the Denvers and other two-paper cities start losing them both. Who's > going to keep your city council in line? The gadfly at the council meetings? > No, nobody listens to him because he's too militant. Your local ABC > affiliate? No, they're too busy with "Shame on You" consumer pieces in which > they accost contractors who never finished a roof that someone paid for, and > ruining reputations whether warranted or not because it makes for good > ratings. CNN? No; even if you're in a major city (except maybe Atlanta), CNN > would rather spend their energy promoting "D.L. Hughley Breaks the News." > > I'm very, very scared about the future of information. > - Greg Marano > Cardinal Points, class of 2001 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > -- Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come - Matt Groening From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Mon Mar 2 18:08:10 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Mon Mar 2 16:55:37 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] None Message-ID: <13800386.1236035290523.JavaMail.root@elwamui-cypress.atl.sa.earthlink.net> ...or the difference between the debt and the deficit...or between a fixed-rate mortgage or an ARM...or the tax rate and the tax levy...Monica nails the underlying problem. And its also the reason I'm as scared as Greg Marano is. Yeesh. Gene -----Original Message----- >From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >Sent: Mar 2, 2009 2:17 PM >To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] None > >Greg, > >What you're describing is a problem with education, not a problem with >online media. The consumers who don't understand the difference >between a blog and an article are the same consumers who don't >understand the difference between an article and a column or >editorial. Ultimately, we have to trust people to understand what >they're looking at: If they don't, they're not going to understand it >no matter what form it takes. > > >Monica Patitucci >Class of '99 > > > >On Mon, Mar 2, 2009 at 1:17 PM, > wrote: >> Monica, >> I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you about these changes being >> good for consumers. Consumers already have a hard enough time figuring out >> truth from fiction, because they don't know the difference between a news >> article and a blog. News articles are written by professionals trained in >> the gathering of information. Blogs are written by people with an axe to >> grind and an internet connection. >> >> Consumers also believe TV news to be more accurate and reliable than print >> -- which, I can tell you from experience from every time I've competed with >> a TV station for a story, is 100% wrong. The morning the Illinois governor >> scandal broke, I was at a speech by Pres. Bush, and had to explain -- very >> slowly, using small words -- the Illinois situation to the TV reporter whose >> hair and suit and makeup and voice were perfectly professional. >> >> A totalitarian system of news - in which the information is controlled by >> the state - is evil and corrupt. A true democracy - in which the information >> is controlled by anybody with the urge to control information on any >> particular day - is anarchy, which will allow corruption to have a field day >> because while bloggers know how to express their opinions, they don't know >> how to file a FOIL. Newspapers provide a medium, in which the >> information-gathering responsibility is concentrated in people who have the >> training and know-how to get the truth to the public. And, despite public >> perception, do so in a relatively straight-forward way; I've never had time >> for personal agendas AND deadlines in the same day. >> >> Denver will be fine, for now, as they have a backup paper. What scares me is >> what will happen when the smaller city papers start folding en masse, then >> when the Denvers and other two-paper cities start losing them both. Who's >> going to keep your city council in line? The gadfly at the council meetings? >> No, nobody listens to him because he's too militant. Your local ABC >> affiliate? No, they're too busy with "Shame on You" consumer pieces in which >> they accost contractors who never finished a roof that someone paid for, and >> ruining reputations whether warranted or not because it makes for good >> ratings. CNN? No; even if you're in a major city (except maybe Atlanta), CNN >> would rather spend their energy promoting "D.L. Hughley Breaks the News." >> >> I'm very, very scared about the future of information. >> - Greg Marano >> Cardinal Points, class of 2001 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Journalism-alumni mailing list >> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni >> >> > > > >-- >Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it >flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come - >Matt Groening >_______________________________________________ >Journalism-alumni mailing list >Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Mon Mar 2 19:38:29 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Mon Mar 2 18:25:55 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] Message-ID: <5429391a0903021638w46715eebtf895d04b65c7937d@mail.gmail.com> Obviously, everyone has made good, well thought out points. From my perspective, in the long run I think journalism will improve from all this, but in the near-term, many of us are going to lose our jobs, C'est la vie. But I see reason for hope based on two reasons: 1) Journalism, as a whole has greatly improved. Sure there is a ton more fluff out there, but peer-to-peer referencing has been greatly enhanced and it's far easier to connect trends than even a decade ago. 2) More people than ever before are going to the Net to gain information/knowledge, whereas, in the past, a subscription to the local paper may have been out of reach. People will always have a desire for contextualized, well-reported stories. I definitely believe that. I also think that blogging is a good thing, not a knife in the heart. I like to read bloggers from the major dailies, et. al., give me those little tidbits or opinions that they couldn't in a story. And then linking stories to these blog posts will continue to drive traffic (more than they would've gotten on their own) to the sites and create more of a nationalized conversation. What has to happen is for someone (my money's on Rupert Murdoch...yeah, I said it) to create and advertising structure that will accommodate the Web. I truly believe this will happen because in a free society there will always be a thirst for true, honest information and people will always look to express their views. If journalism dies out that means the United States as we know it dies out, and I refuse to believe that will happen. Yet, eventually the Old Gray Ladies will die out, or have less relevance...that doesn't mean journalism has to die, not at all. And that doesn't mean that good journalists won't be able to find a jobs, even in this economy. But those that can't or refuse to learn the lay of the new land will rightfully be left without a chair. Sorry if some of these ideas were expressed better in previous emails. I just felt the need to join in since I love this fucking profession so much! God Bless America! Tony Malakian Class of 2005, or was it 2006, possible 4...can't remember. From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Mon Mar 2 21:10:16 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Mon Mar 2 23:48:36 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] In-Reply-To: <66baef7f0903021015i2e3e03c2q7f397ea8f01cf774@mail.gmail.com> References: <66baef7f0903021015i2e3e03c2q7f397ea8f01cf774@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49ACBBB8.1090803@nycap.rr.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/pipermail/journalism-alumni/attachments/20090302/d1453a0a/attachment.htm From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Tue Mar 3 16:32:33 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Tue Mar 3 15:19:55 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] Message-ID: A source at Treasury&Risk magazine told me they are hiring a senior reporter to be the EIC's right-hand person. I don't know the pay, but the job would entail writing stories, editing, cultivating sources, going to industry events, etc. The job is in NYC. I know the EIC, so please let me know if you're interested and I'll give you her contact info. Oksana Poltavets, Class of '06 (518) 332-4173 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_70faster_032009-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/pipermail/journalism-alumni/attachments/20090303/0c15d4a5/attachment.htm From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Tue Mar 3 22:21:56 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Tue Mar 3 16:09:17 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hey Oksana, I love how you're still rocking the 518 area code! Anna To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Date: Tue, 3 Mar 2009 16:32:33 -0500 From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Subject: [jou-alumni] A source at Treasury&Risk magazine told me they are hiring a senior reporter to be the EIC's right-hand person. I don't know the pay, but the job would entail writing stories, editing, cultivating sources, going to industry events, etc. The job is in NYC. I know the EIC, so please let me know if you're interested and I'll give you her contact info. Oksana Poltavets, Class of '06 (518) 332-4173 Hotmail? is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Find out more. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Contacts: Organize your contact list. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/marcusatmicrosoft.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!503D1D86EBB2B53C!2285.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_UGC_Contacts_032009-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/pipermail/journalism-alumni/attachments/20090303/c03d15c3/attachment.htm From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Tue Mar 3 15:44:53 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Tue Mar 3 17:32:14 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] None Message-ID: <407294.55825.qm@web51706.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Monica, I agree with you 100 % - it IS about education. And no, I don't trust the public to educate themselves. I bet more people can tell you what happened on The Bachelor last night than name anything that happened in Washington this week. And this trend will continue as more people get their news from media that make better use of bright colors and easily digestible sound bites. Is that the public's fault for not seeking out the deeper news? Or the media's fault for pandering to the public's appetite for gossip, breasts, celebrities behaving badly, and other bright shiny objects that make squeaky noises when you squeeze them to catch the attention of a baby, a puppy, or (as Swift so eloquently put it) a lobotomized chimp? I don't have an answer to that. I'd like to hear everybody's thoughts. - Greg Marano Cardinal Points, class of 2001 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/pipermail/journalism-alumni/attachments/20090303/29cdfa8e/attachment.htm From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Tue Mar 3 19:00:09 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Tue Mar 3 17:47:30 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] Happy ex-journalist Message-ID: I've done time at a JRC paper (New Haven) and a GateHouse paper (Framingham). In many ways JRC was an innovator in doing journalism on the cheap. Many of the tactics journalists are whining about today are the same tactics I saw JRC use in the early 2000s. When I took the job in Framingham in 2006, that paper seemed to be doing all the right things. A year later, I saw them implementing JRC tactics and I knew exactly what was coming. Here's a story for you: One day I walk into work in Framingham, and immediately feel a sense of heaviness and despair in the air. I sit down at my desk and say to my coworkers, "Everyone's acting strange. Did people get laid off?" Being fellow "just-a-copy-editors" they had no clue. A couple minutes later one of the most experienced just-a-copy-editors announced that he'd been laid off, shook hands with everyone and walked out of the building. We young folks have an edge because we work for cheap to fill the white stuff around the ads. However, the older folks with kids, houses, cars and community roots are fucked. That's not a future I looked forward to. That's why I went back to school. Romenesko confirms my decision every day. Josh Lunt From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Tue Mar 3 22:02:02 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Tue Mar 3 20:49:23 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] None In-Reply-To: <407294.55825.qm@web51706.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <407294.55825.qm@web51706.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8549dc340903031902h3576f4d5v4538cb7e2281bcc5@mail.gmail.com> At the risk of turning this into a conversation between me and Greg, I'll say that journalism has always been a field that has in equal parts elevated the national dialogue and pandered to the lowest common denominator. Yellow journalism isn't new, and there has never been a golden age in which reporters were all good and pure and readers were all dedicated to the pursuit of knowledge. I also do not trust the public to educate themselves, but I don't trust myself and my colleagues to decide on behalf of the "unwashed masses" what form information should take. There will always be a market for gossip and breasts, but I'm confident that there will also always be a market for well-written, in depth journalism that makes people think and inspires them to act. Perhaps the best we can do is take the "if we build it, they will come" approach: If we continue to generate high-quality work and hold ourselves to the highest standards, people who genuinely want to understand will seek it out. For everyone else, there's Bill O'Reilly. Monica Patitucci Class of 1999 On Tue, Mar 3, 2009 at 6:44 PM, wrote: > Monica, > > I agree with you 100 % - it IS about education. And no, I don't trust the > public to educate themselves. I bet more people can tell you what happened > on The Bachelor last night than name anything that happened in Washington > this week. And this trend will continue as more people get their news from > media that make better use of bright colors and easily digestible sound > bites. Is that the public's fault for not seeking out the deeper news? Or > the media's fault for pandering to the public's appetite for gossip, > breasts, celebrities behaving badly, and other bright shiny objects that > make squeaky noises when you squeeze them to catch the attention of a baby, > a puppy, or (as Swift so eloquently put it) a lobotomized chimp? > > I don't have an answer to that. I'd like to hear everybody's thoughts. > > - Greg Marano > Cardinal Points, class of 2001 > > > > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > -- Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come - Matt Groening From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Wed Mar 4 11:16:17 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Wed Mar 4 13:03:34 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] who will pay? Message-ID: <699610.79996.qm@web52309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> It's been interesting seeing this debate unfold: Quoting Monica: "I'm confident that there will always be a market for well-written, in depth journalism that makes people think and inspires them to act. Perhaps the best we can do is take the "if we build it, they will come" approach: If we continue to generate high-quality work and hold ourselves to the highest standards, people who genuinely want to understand will seek it out." Are you talking about market, or audience? The difference is this: there will always be an audience for in-depth, quality journalism, but will there be a market for it? Who will pay for the work? The problem with the rampant spread of information on the web is the lack of structure in place to pay people for their work. Web information relies on "stealing" stories from other places (just take a look at yahoo news, etc., that's garnered from other sources).... I believe the future online is through micropayments, compensating the people behind the stories who are gathering and assembling the information. Check out this Time magazine story, if you haven't already: http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1877191,00.html --Melissa Hart, '01 Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life. -- Bertolt Brecht -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/pipermail/journalism-alumni/attachments/20090304/0aca384f/attachment.htm From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Wed Mar 4 21:51:32 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Wed Mar 4 20:38:47 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] who will pay? In-Reply-To: <699610.79996.qm@web52309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <699610.79996.qm@web52309.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8549dc340903041851h6fc2e6afi18dfea50f69d9a81@mail.gmail.com> I'll use my boyfriend as an example of why I think there will always be a market for good journalism. He's a tech geek who gets most of his news online, and he has a general disdain for the concept for intellectual property. He doesn't think people should hold the rights to ideas and creative work. Yet he still subscribes to the Kindle version of The New York Times and has several paper magazine subscriptions because he believes the work is good enough to pay for, and he wants it directly from the original source. Micropayments seem like a great idea. People will pay for what they want. We just have to be smart about it. Monica Patitucci Class of 1999 On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 2:16 PM, wrote: > It's been interesting seeing this debate unfold: > > Quoting Monica: > "I'm confident that there will > always be a market for well-written, in depth journalism that makes > people think and inspires them to act. Perhaps the best we can do is > take the "if we build it, they will come" approach: If we continue to > generate high-quality work and hold ourselves to the highest > standards, people who genuinely want to understand will seek it out." > > Are you talking about market, or audience? > The difference is this: there will always be an audience for in-depth, > quality journalism, but will there be a market for it? Who will pay for the > work? The problem with the rampant spread of information on the web is the > lack of structure in place to pay people for their work. Web information > relies on "stealing" stories from other places (just take a look at yahoo > news, etc., that's garnered from other sources).... > > I believe the future online is through micropayments, compensating the > people behind the stories who are gathering and assembling the information. > > Check out this Time magazine story, if you haven't already: > http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1877191,00.html > > --Melissa Hart, '01 > > Do not fear death so much, but rather the inadequate life. > -- Bertolt Brecht > > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > -- Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come - Matt Groening From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Thu Mar 5 11:24:42 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Thu Mar 5 10:11:54 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] Job in NYC Message-ID: Treasury & Risk Magazine Senior Writer / Editor Location: New York, NY Treasury & Risk magazine keeps our 45,000 readers in the know on key developments, trends, best practices, strategies, tools and technology that are driving the future of finance and treasury. T&R profiles the leading treasuries and finance departments across the nation, creating a window for senior finance executives showing how companies of all sizes are coping with today?s challenges. The successful candidate will research and write department pieces, profiles, cover and feature stories, and other magazine content as needed as well as assist in copyediting and production, and oversee the magazine?s Website content and maintenance. He/she will assist the editor in generating story ideas, ensuring deadlines are met, setting the direction of the magazine, creating the editorial calendar, and taking over in the editor?s absence. Candidates must have three to five years of financial sector editorial experience and a degree in journalism, English or related subject. Experience in writing about corporate treasury and/or risk management topics is a plus. Excellent writing and editing skills and the ability to produce quality, accurate content in a timely manner are a must. Use of InDesign, MS Office preferred. Interested candidates should email their resume, salary requirements and cover letter to lharris@sbmedia.com Or Donna Miskin Editor-in-Chief Treasury & Risk 212/557-7482 dmiskin@treasuryandrisk.com posted by Oksana Poltavets, '06. If anyone is interested, let me know, I can put in a word for you. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Contacts: Organize your contact list. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/marcusatmicrosoft.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!503D1D86EBB2B53C!2285.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_UGC_Contacts_032009-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/pipermail/journalism-alumni/attachments/20090305/b289666b/attachment.htm From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Sun Mar 8 16:57:35 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Sun Mar 8 14:53:28 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] Cardinal Points this week Message-ID: <005e01c9a029$2da7ba40$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> To read about Plattsburgh SUNYAC championship hockey game and to read and see coverage of the counter-protest to the homosexual-hating Westboro Baptist Church's Friday visit to Plattsurgh, go here: http://www.cardinalpointsonline.com/ Shawn W. Murphy Associate Professor of Journalism Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points Chair, Department of Journalism Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism 103-A Yokum Hall SUNY Plattsburgh 101 Broad St. Plattsburgh, NY 12901 518-564-2422, phone 518-564-2105, fax shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/pipermail/journalism-alumni/attachments/20090308/20b9c338/attachment.htm From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Tue Mar 10 13:10:25 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Tue Mar 10 11:01:53 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] imploding newspapers, top 10 Message-ID: <004f01c9a19a$b891d3d0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> The 10 Major Newspapers That Will Either Fold or Go Digital Next http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20090309/us_time/08599188378500 I feel like part of my heart is being ripped away. Shawn W. Murphy Associate Professor of Journalism Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points Chair, Department of Journalism Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism 103-A Yokum Hall SUNY Plattsburgh 101 Broad St. Plattsburgh, NY 12901 518-564-2422, phone 518-564-2105, fax shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/pipermail/journalism-alumni/attachments/20090310/38f98428/attachment.htm From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Tue Mar 10 15:27:23 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Tue Mar 10 13:14:18 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] imploding newspapers, top 10 In-Reply-To: <004f01c9a19a$b891d3d0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> References: <004f01c9a19a$b891d3d0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> Message-ID: <3733cc2e0903101127k5818b36xed14df9b12f88e67@mail.gmail.com> Don't feel too bad Murph. It's like the banks, sometimes you've gotta let em die. Cardinal Points is as strong as ever right? Make that a daily and what else would you need? On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 12:10 PM, wrote: > The 10 Major Newspapers That Will Either Fold or Go Digital Next > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20090309/us_time/08599188378500 > I feel like part of my heart is being ripped away. > > > Shawn W. Murphy > Associate Professor of Journalism > Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points > Chair, Department of Journalism > Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism > 103-A Yokum Hall > SUNY Plattsburgh > 101 Broad St. > Plattsburgh, NY 12901 > 518-564-2422, phone > 518-564-2105, fax > shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu > > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/pipermail/journalism-alumni/attachments/20090310/b75bf693/attachment.htm From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Tue Mar 10 18:48:55 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Tue Mar 10 16:36:54 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] imploding newspapers, top 10 In-Reply-To: <3733cc2e0903101127k5818b36xed14df9b12f88e67@mail.gmail.com> References: <004f01c9a19a$b891d3d0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> <3733cc2e0903101127k5818b36xed14df9b12f88e67@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4061.68.191.10.12.1236721735.squirrel@webmail.plattsburgh.edu> Cardinal Points is indeed as strong as ever, and I've tinkered with the idea of having it a small daily, but we don't have the staff to allow that quite yet. We do (sort of) the equivalent with the Web site with the daily updates. There is a future plan to make that more consistent. Murphy > Don't feel too bad Murph. > > It's like the banks, sometimes you've gotta let em die. > > Cardinal Points is as strong as ever right? Make that a daily and what > else > would you need? > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 12:10 PM, > wrote: > >> The 10 Major Newspapers That Will Either Fold or Go Digital Next >> >> http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20090309/us_time/08599188378500 >> I feel like part of my heart is being ripped away. >> >> >> Shawn W. Murphy >> Associate Professor of Journalism >> Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points >> Chair, Department of Journalism >> Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism >> 103-A Yokum Hall >> SUNY Plattsburgh >> 101 Broad St. >> Plattsburgh, NY 12901 >> 518-564-2422, phone >> 518-564-2105, fax >> shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Journalism-alumni mailing list >> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > Shawn W. Murphy Associate Professor of Journalism Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points Chair, Department of Journalism Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism 103-A Yokum Hall SUNY Plattsburgh 101 Broad St. Plattsburgh, NY 12901 518-564-2422, phone 518-564-2105, fax shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Tue Mar 10 20:31:26 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Tue Mar 10 18:18:20 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] imploding newspapers, top 10 In-Reply-To: <4061.68.191.10.12.1236721735.squirrel@webmail.plattsburgh.edu> References: <004f01c9a19a$b891d3d0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> <3733cc2e0903101127k5818b36xed14df9b12f88e67@mail.gmail.com> <4061.68.191.10.12.1236721735.squirrel@webmail.plattsburgh.edu> Message-ID: <3733cc2e0903101631u10da1960u50b129f459fc8ed6@mail.gmail.com> the one thing i'd like to see on the Web is a big pic on the front page On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 5:48 PM, wrote: > Cardinal Points is indeed as strong as ever, and I've tinkered with the > idea of having it a small daily, but we don't have the staff to allow that > quite yet. We do (sort of) the equivalent with the Web site with the daily > updates. There is a future plan to make that more consistent. > Murphy > > > Don't feel too bad Murph. > > > > It's like the banks, sometimes you've gotta let em die. > > > > Cardinal Points is as strong as ever right? Make that a daily and what > > else > > would you need? > > > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 12:10 PM, > > wrote: > > > >> The 10 Major Newspapers That Will Either Fold or Go Digital Next > >> > >> http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20090309/us_time/08599188378500 > >> I feel like part of my heart is being ripped away. > >> > >> > >> Shawn W. Murphy > >> Associate Professor of Journalism > >> Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points > >> Chair, Department of Journalism > >> Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism > >> 103-A Yokum Hall > >> SUNY Plattsburgh > >> 101 Broad St. > >> Plattsburgh, NY 12901 > >> 518-564-2422, phone > >> 518-564-2105, fax > >> shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Journalism-alumni mailing list > >> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > >> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Journalism-alumni mailing list > > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > > > > Shawn W. Murphy > Associate Professor of Journalism > Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points > Chair, Department of Journalism > Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism > 103-A Yokum Hall > SUNY Plattsburgh > 101 Broad St. > Plattsburgh, NY 12901 > 518-564-2422, phone > 518-564-2105, fax > shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/pipermail/journalism-alumni/attachments/20090310/7ce99e9e/attachment.htm From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Wed Mar 11 07:36:43 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Wed Mar 11 09:23:33 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] imploding newspapers, top 10 In-Reply-To: <3733cc2e0903101631u10da1960u50b129f459fc8ed6@mail.gmail.com> References: <004f01c9a19a$b891d3d0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> <3733cc2e0903101127k5818b36xed14df9b12f88e67@mail.gmail.com> <4061.68.191.10.12.1236721735.squirrel@webmail.plattsburgh.edu> <3733cc2e0903101631u10da1960u50b129f459fc8ed6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8f06c7810903110736r1e531b3fi8ece9d02a1876dcd@mail.gmail.com> I worked for a small weekly newspaper in N.C. and when we had a school shooting, we did daily updates on the web and tripled our hits to the site for a few weeks after we switched back to updating every other day. I think it's a great way to keep people interested in the paper, since our daily competitors were always posting their content on the web after the stories happened. By the way, here is a job posting, for anyone looking to move to Montana in the winter (yeah, I know, but here it is anyway): http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/job-JQWVC6IQT42;_ylt=AipRyF.024FKCdKqPTDWBRv6Q6IX?source=SRP Keri Sprenger On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 3:31 PM, wrote: > the one thing i'd like to see on the Web is a big pic on the front page > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 5:48 PM, > wrote: >> >> Cardinal Points is indeed as strong as ever, and I've tinkered with the >> idea of having it a small daily, but we don't have the staff to allow that >> quite yet. We do (sort of) the equivalent with the Web site with the daily >> updates. There is a future plan to make that more consistent. >> Murphy >> >> > Don't feel too bad Murph. >> > >> > It's like the banks, sometimes you've gotta let em die. >> > >> > Cardinal Points is as strong as ever right? Make that a daily and what >> > else >> > would you need? >> > >> > On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 12:10 PM, >> > wrote: >> > >> >> The 10 Major Newspapers That Will Either Fold or Go Digital Next >> >> >> >> http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20090309/us_time/08599188378500 >> >> I feel like part of my heart is being ripped away. >> >> >> >> >> >> Shawn W. Murphy >> >> Associate Professor of Journalism >> >> Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points >> >> Chair, Department of Journalism >> >> Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism >> >> 103-A Yokum Hall >> >> SUNY Plattsburgh >> >> 101 Broad St. >> >> Plattsburgh, NY 12901 >> >> 518-564-2422, phone >> >> 518-564-2105, fax >> >> shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Journalism-alumni mailing list >> >> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >> >> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Journalism-alumni mailing list >> > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >> > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni >> > >> >> >> Shawn W. Murphy >> Associate Professor of Journalism >> Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points >> Chair, Department of Journalism >> Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism >> 103-A Yokum Hall >> SUNY Plattsburgh >> 101 Broad St. >> Plattsburgh, NY 12901 >> 518-564-2422, phone >> 518-564-2105, fax >> shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Journalism-alumni mailing list >> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Wed Mar 11 14:57:06 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Wed Mar 11 12:44:48 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] RE: Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 27, Issue 13 In-Reply-To: <20090311160005.77B3FA33E8@lists.plattsburgh.edu> References: <20090311160005.77B3FA33E8@lists.plattsburgh.edu> Message-ID: Wow... I guess that Top 10 list isn't too far off... Word going around is that the Miami Herald cut 150 positions today, including 50 in the newsroom alone. Remaining employees making less than 50K will take a 5 percent pay cut. Employees making over 50K will take a 10 percent cut. (Sucks for the person making 50,001.) Can you imagine a city like Miami without a major (English-language) newspaper? It's strange to think about it, but as I stated in an earlier posting, a vacancy like that might allow some enterprising group of young and innovative journalists to grab a major foothold, and show this industry how to evolve. Actually, if any of these major markets are left vacant it will be very interesting to watch what happens. I kinda see it like this: when you burn down a forest, the things that grow back are usually more vibrant and healthy than what was there before. Welcome to the jungle, I guess. (And I'm glad to hear that C.P. is doing well. I've got a few small complaints about some of the coverage I see online, but for the most part, it seems like the crew is doing a bang-up job. Also, I love getting the e-mail alerts whenever a big story breaks or an important sports result comes in... even if it's late. Nice knowing that those editors are still putting the late-night hours in!) - Mike Coulter -----Original Message----- From: journalism-alumni-bounces@lists.plattsburgh.edu [mailto:journalism-alumni-bounces@lists.plattsburgh.edu] On Behalf Of journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 2009 12:00 PM To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Subject: Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 27, Issue 13 Send Journalism-alumni mailing list submissions to journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to journalism-alumni-request@lists.plattsburgh.edu You can reach the person managing the list at journalism-alumni-owner@lists.plattsburgh.edu When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Journalism-alumni digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: imploding newspapers, top 10 2. Re: imploding newspapers, top 10 3. Re: imploding newspapers, top 10 4. Re: imploding newspapers, top 10 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 14:27:23 -0400 From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] imploding newspapers, top 10 Message-ID: <3733cc2e0903101127k5818b36xed14df9b12f88e67@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <004f01c9a19a$b891d3d0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> References: <004f01c9a19a$b891d3d0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163646c222f7f7810464c7e640 MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Message: 1 --00163646c222f7f7810464c7e640 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Don't feel too bad Murph. It's like the banks, sometimes you've gotta let em die. Cardinal Points is as strong as ever right? Make that a daily and what else would you need? On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 12:10 PM, wrote: > The 10 Major Newspapers That Will Either Fold or Go Digital Next > > http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20090309/us_time/08599188378500 > I feel like part of my heart is being ripped away. > > > Shawn W. Murphy > Associate Professor of Journalism > Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points > Chair, Department of Journalism > Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism > 103-A Yokum Hall > SUNY Plattsburgh > 101 Broad St. > Plattsburgh, NY 12901 > 518-564-2422, phone > 518-564-2105, fax > shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu > > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > --00163646c222f7f7810464c7e640 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Don't feel too bad Murph.
=A0
It's like the banks, sometimes you've gotta let em die.
=A0
Cardinal Points is as strong as ever right? Make that a daily and what= else would you need?

On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 12:10 PM, <journali= sm-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu> wrote:
The 10 Major Newspapers That Will Either Fold or Go Digital Next
http://ne= ws.yahoo.com/s/time/20090309/us_time/08599188378500
I feel like part of my heart is being = ripped away.
=A0
=A0
Shawn W. Murphy
Associate Professor= of Journalism
Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points
Chair, Department o= f Journalism
Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism
103= -A Yokum Hall
SUNY Plattsburgh
101 Broad St.
Plattsburgh, NY 12901
518-564-2422,= phone
518-564-2105, fax
shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu

_______________________________________________
Journalism-alumni ma= iling list
Jo= urnalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
http://list= s.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni


--00163646c222f7f7810464c7e640-- ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:48:55 -0400 (EDT) From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] imploding newspapers, top 10 Message-ID: <4061.68.191.10.12.1236721735.squirrel@webmail.plattsburgh.edu> In-Reply-To: <3733cc2e0903101127k5818b36xed14df9b12f88e67@mail.gmail.com> References: <004f01c9a19a$b891d3d0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> <3733cc2e0903101127k5818b36xed14df9b12f88e67@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Message: 2 Cardinal Points is indeed as strong as ever, and I've tinkered with the idea of having it a small daily, but we don't have the staff to allow that quite yet. We do (sort of) the equivalent with the Web site with the daily updates. There is a future plan to make that more consistent. Murphy > Don't feel too bad Murph. > > It's like the banks, sometimes you've gotta let em die. > > Cardinal Points is as strong as ever right? Make that a daily and what > else > would you need? > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 12:10 PM, > wrote: > >> The 10 Major Newspapers That Will Either Fold or Go Digital Next >> >> http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20090309/us_time/08599188378500 >> I feel like part of my heart is being ripped away. >> >> >> Shawn W. Murphy >> Associate Professor of Journalism >> Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points >> Chair, Department of Journalism >> Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism >> 103-A Yokum Hall >> SUNY Plattsburgh >> 101 Broad St. >> Plattsburgh, NY 12901 >> 518-564-2422, phone >> 518-564-2105, fax >> shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Journalism-alumni mailing list >> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > Shawn W. Murphy Associate Professor of Journalism Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points Chair, Department of Journalism Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism 103-A Yokum Hall SUNY Plattsburgh 101 Broad St. Plattsburgh, NY 12901 518-564-2422, phone 518-564-2105, fax shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 19:31:26 -0400 From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] imploding newspapers, top 10 Message-ID: <3733cc2e0903101631u10da1960u50b129f459fc8ed6@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <4061.68.191.10.12.1236721735.squirrel@webmail.plattsburgh.edu> References: <004f01c9a19a$b891d3d0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> <3733cc2e0903101127k5818b36xed14df9b12f88e67@mail.gmail.com> <4061.68.191.10.12.1236721735.squirrel@webmail.plattsburgh.edu> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016364571b05e3b0c0464cc263d MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Message: 3 --0016364571b05e3b0c0464cc263d Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit the one thing i'd like to see on the Web is a big pic on the front page On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 5:48 PM, wrote: > Cardinal Points is indeed as strong as ever, and I've tinkered with the > idea of having it a small daily, but we don't have the staff to allow that > quite yet. We do (sort of) the equivalent with the Web site with the daily > updates. There is a future plan to make that more consistent. > Murphy > > > Don't feel too bad Murph. > > > > It's like the banks, sometimes you've gotta let em die. > > > > Cardinal Points is as strong as ever right? Make that a daily and what > > else > > would you need? > > > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 12:10 PM, > > wrote: > > > >> The 10 Major Newspapers That Will Either Fold or Go Digital Next > >> > >> http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20090309/us_time/08599188378500 > >> I feel like part of my heart is being ripped away. > >> > >> > >> Shawn W. Murphy > >> Associate Professor of Journalism > >> Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points > >> Chair, Department of Journalism > >> Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism > >> 103-A Yokum Hall > >> SUNY Plattsburgh > >> 101 Broad St. > >> Plattsburgh, NY 12901 > >> 518-564-2422, phone > >> 518-564-2105, fax > >> shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Journalism-alumni mailing list > >> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > >> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Journalism-alumni mailing list > > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > > > > Shawn W. Murphy > Associate Professor of Journalism > Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points > Chair, Department of Journalism > Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism > 103-A Yokum Hall > SUNY Plattsburgh > 101 Broad St. > Plattsburgh, NY 12901 > 518-564-2422, phone > 518-564-2105, fax > shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > --0016364571b05e3b0c0464cc263d Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable the one thing i'd like to see on the Web is a big pic on the front page=

On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 5:48 PM, <journalis= m-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu> wrote:
Cardinal Points is indeed as str= ong as ever, and I've tinkered with the
idea of having it a small da= ily, but we don't have the staff to allow that
quite yet. We do (sort of) the equivalent with the Web site with the daily<= br>updates. There is a future plan to make that more consistent.
Murphy<= br>

> Don't feel too bad Murph.
>
> It= 's like the banks, sometimes you've gotta let em die.
>
&g= t; Cardinal Points is as strong as ever right? Make that a daily and what > else
> would you need?
>
> On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 1= 2:10 PM,
> <journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu>wrote:
>
&g t;&= gt; =A0The 10 Major Newspapers That Will Either Fold or Go Digital Next
>>
>> http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20090309/= us_time/08599188378500
>> I feel like part of my heart is bein= g ripped away.
>>
>>
>> Shawn W. Murphy
>> Associate Prof= essor of Journalism
>> Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points
>&= gt; Chair, Department of Journalism
>> Co-Director, Center for Com= munication and Journalism
>> 103-A Yokum Hall
>> SUNY Plattsburgh
>> 101 Broa= d St.
>> Plattsburgh, NY 12901
>> 518-564-2422, phone
= >> 518-564-2105, fax
>> shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>= ;> Journalism-alumni mailing list
>> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
>> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/j= ournalism-alumni
>>
>>
> ______________________= _________________________
> Journalism-alumni mailing list
> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu< br>= > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journ= alism-alumni
>


Shawn W. Murphy
Associate Professor of Journalism
Fac= ulty Advisor to Cardinal Points
Chair, Department of Journalism
Co-Di= rector, Center for Communication and Journalism
103-A Yokum Hall
SUNY Plattsburgh
101 Broad St.
Plattsburgh, NY 12901
518-564-2422,= phone
518-564-2105, fax
shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu


________________________ ___= ____________________
Journalism-alumni mailing list
Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu
http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni

--0016364571b05e3b0c0464cc263d-- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 06:36:43 -0800 From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] imploding newspapers, top 10 Message-ID: <8f06c7810903110736r1e531b3fi8ece9d02a1876dcd@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <3733cc2e0903101631u10da1960u50b129f459fc8ed6@mail.gmail.com> References: <004f01c9a19a$b891d3d0$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> <3733cc2e0903101127k5818b36xed14df9b12f88e67@mail.gmail.com> <4061.68.191.10.12.1236721735.squirrel@webmail.plattsburgh.edu> <3733cc2e0903101631u10da1960u50b129f459fc8ed6@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Message: 4 I worked for a small weekly newspaper in N.C. and when we had a school shooting, we did daily updates on the web and tripled our hits to the site for a few weeks after we switched back to updating every other day. I think it's a great way to keep people interested in the paper, since our daily competitors were always posting their content on the web after the stories happened. By the way, here is a job posting, for anyone looking to move to Montana in the winter (yeah, I know, but here it is anyway): http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/job-JQWVC6IQT42;_ylt=AipRyF.024FKCdKqPTDWBRv6Q6 IX?source=SRP Keri Sprenger On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 3:31 PM, wrote: > the one thing i'd like to see on the Web is a big pic on the front page > > On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 5:48 PM, > wrote: >> >> Cardinal Points is indeed as strong as ever, and I've tinkered with the >> idea of having it a small daily, but we don't have the staff to allow that >> quite yet. We do (sort of) the equivalent with the Web site with the daily >> updates. There is a future plan to make that more consistent. >> Murphy >> >> > Don't feel too bad Murph. >> > >> > It's like the banks, sometimes you've gotta let em die. >> > >> > Cardinal Points is as strong as ever right? Make that a daily and what >> > else >> > would you need? >> > >> > On Tue, Mar 10, 2009 at 12:10 PM, >> > wrote: >> > >> >> The 10 Major Newspapers That Will Either Fold or Go Digital Next >> >> >> >> http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20090309/us_time/08599188378500 >> >> I feel like part of my heart is being ripped away. >> >> >> >> >> >> Shawn W. Murphy >> >> Associate Professor of Journalism >> >> Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points >> >> Chair, Department of Journalism >> >> Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism >> >> 103-A Yokum Hall >> >> SUNY Plattsburgh >> >> 101 Broad St. >> >> Plattsburgh, NY 12901 >> >> 518-564-2422, phone >> >> 518-564-2105, fax >> >> shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Journalism-alumni mailing list >> >> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >> >> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni >> >> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Journalism-alumni mailing list >> > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >> > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni >> > >> >> >> Shawn W. Murphy >> Associate Professor of Journalism >> Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points >> Chair, Department of Journalism >> Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism >> 103-A Yokum Hall >> SUNY Plattsburgh >> 101 Broad St. >> Plattsburgh, NY 12901 >> 518-564-2422, phone >> 518-564-2105, fax >> shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Journalism-alumni mailing list >> Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu >> http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni > > ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Journalism-alumni mailing list Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni End of Journalism-alumni Digest, Vol 27, Issue 13 ************************************************* From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Thu Mar 12 14:46:21 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Thu Mar 12 12:33:07 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] Message-ID: <5429391a0903121046s2235c41dw8df7afe6754ef74@mail.gmail.com> To go along with what Sensei (Mike Coulter) posted, here's a depressing article from the NYT. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/12/business/media/12papers.html?_r=2&ref=todayspaper&pagewanted=all From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Fri Mar 13 22:46:03 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Fri Mar 13 20:36:15 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] redesigned Cardinal Points Web site Message-ID: <1998.68.191.10.12.1236995163.squirrel@webmail.plattsburgh.edu> To check out the redesigned Cardinal Points Web site, go here: http://www.cardinalpointsonline.com/ Shawn W. Murphy Associate Professor of Journalism Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points Chair, Department of Journalism Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism 103-A Yokum Hall SUNY Plattsburgh 101 Broad St. Plattsburgh, NY 12901 518-564-2422, phone 518-564-2105, fax shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Sat Mar 14 17:15:48 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Sat Mar 14 15:03:09 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] St. Pat's Day with Murphy, Saratoga Springs Message-ID: <1540.68.191.10.12.1237061748.squirrel@webmail.plattsburgh.edu> To the Cardinal Points' alumni in the Saratoga Springs area (including Anna Jolly, Shannon MacCue, Todd Kehoe, Omar Aquije, Katie Holscher, and any others I'm forgetting at the moment): I will be in Saratoga Springs with family for a few days this week, including this Tuesday, St. Patrick's Day. I'd like to meet with any of you who are available and interested for a pint of Guinness at the Parting Glass (http://www.partingglasspub.com/). I will be there at 5 p.m. Will likely stay until about 6:30 because I'll have to take my family out to dinner (I can't have my 3-year-old daughter with me at this rowdy Irish pub for dinner, you see). Hope to see you there. Cheers, Murphy Shawn W. Murphy Associate Professor of Journalism Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points Chair, Department of Journalism Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism 103-A Yokum Hall SUNY Plattsburgh 101 Broad St. Plattsburgh, NY 12901 518-564-2422, phone 518-564-2105, fax shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Sat Mar 14 15:33:21 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Sat Mar 14 16:19:54 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] St. Pat's Day with Murphy, Saratoga Springs Message-ID: <659719.68901.qm@web45610.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Murph!! I won't take offense to the fact that you forgot about me and my job here at The Saratogian, I sometimes forget?too?.. but I will?surely be?at the Parting Glass Tuesday at 5 p.m. Look forward to seeing you and whoever else is able to make it! ? Sam "Py" Hollingsworth ? --- On Sat, 3/14/09, journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu wrote: From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Subject: [jou-alumni] St. Pat's Day with Murphy, Saratoga Springs To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Date: Saturday, March 14, 2009, 8:15 PM To the Cardinal Points' alumni in the Saratoga Springs area (including Anna Jolly, Shannon MacCue, Todd Kehoe, Omar Aquije, Katie Holscher, and any others I'm forgetting at the moment): I will be in Saratoga Springs with family for a few days this week, including this Tuesday, St. Patrick's Day. I'd like to meet with any of you who are available and interested for a pint of Guinness at the Parting Glass (http://www.partingglasspub.com/). I will be there at 5 p.m. Will likely stay until about 6:30 because I'll have to take my family out to dinner (I can't have my 3-year-old daughter with me at this rowdy Irish pub for dinner, you see). Hope to see you there. Cheers, Murphy Shawn W. Murphy Associate Professor of Journalism Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points Chair, Department of Journalism Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism 103-A Yokum Hall SUNY Plattsburgh 101 Broad St. Plattsburgh, NY 12901 518-564-2422, phone 518-564-2105, fax shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu _______________________________________________ Journalism-alumni mailing list Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/pipermail/journalism-alumni/attachments/20090314/bfa48d88/attachment.htm From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Sun Mar 15 00:35:53 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Sat Mar 14 18:22:26 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] St. Pat's Day with Murphy, Saratoga Springs In-Reply-To: <659719.68901.qm@web45610.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <659719.68901.qm@web45610.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: A year late and a dollar short Murph. I wish I could meet ya at the Glass and catch up with all. Hope the CPers in the Saratoga area are all doing well (even the Red Sox fans). Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 14:33:21 -0700 Subject: Re: [jou-alumni] St. Pat's Day with Murphy, Saratoga Springs To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Murph!! I won't take offense to the fact that you forgot about me and my job here at The Saratogian, I sometimes forget too .. but I will surely be at the Parting Glass Tuesday at 5 p.m. Look forward to seeing you and whoever else is able to make it! Sam "Py" Hollingsworth --- On Sat, 3/14/09, journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu wrote: From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Subject: [jou-alumni] St. Pat's Day with Murphy, Saratoga Springs To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Date: Saturday, March 14, 2009, 8:15 PM To the Cardinal Points' alumni in the Saratoga Springs area (including Anna Jolly, Shannon MacCue, Todd Kehoe, Omar Aquije, Katie Holscher, and any others I'm forgetting at the moment): I will be in Saratoga Springs with family for a few days this week, including this Tuesday, St. Patrick's Day. I'd like to meet with any of you who are available and interested for a pint of Guinness at the Parting Glass (http://www.partingglasspub.com/). I will be there at 5 p.m. Will likely stay until about 6:30 because I'll have to take my family out to dinner (I can't have my 3-year-old daughter with me at this rowdy Irish pub for dinner, you see). Hope to see you there. Cheers, Murphy Shawn W. Murphy Associate Professor of Journalism Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points Chair, Department of Journalism Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism 103-A Yokum Hall SUNY Plattsburgh 101 Broad St. Plattsburgh, NY 12901 518-564-2422, phone 518-564-2105, fax shawn..murphy@plattsburgh.edu _______________________________________________ Journalism-alumni mailing list Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live? Contacts: Organize your contact list. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/marcusatmicrosoft.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!503D1D86EBB2B53C!2285.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_UGC_Contacts_032009-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/pipermail/journalism-alumni/attachments/20090314/0e58d9aa/attachment.htm From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Sun Mar 15 10:02:31 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Sun Mar 15 07:49:00 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] St. Pat's Day with Murphy, Saratoga Springs In-Reply-To: <1540.68.191.10.12.1237061748.squirrel@webmail.plattsburgh.edu> References: <1540.68.191.10.12.1237061748.squirrel@webmail.plattsburgh.edu> Message-ID: Mr. Murphy, I will be there unless someone has the nerve to give me an exclusive story minutes before my shift ends and my editors insist that the story must run the next day (although I'll do anything possible to talk my way out of it). Omar > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 16:15:48 -0400 > To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Subject: [jou-alumni] St. Pat's Day with Murphy, Saratoga Springs > > To the Cardinal Points' alumni in the Saratoga Springs area (including > Anna Jolly, Shannon MacCue, Todd Kehoe, Omar Aquije, Katie Holscher, and > any others I'm forgetting at the moment): > > I will be in Saratoga Springs with family for a few days this week, > including this Tuesday, St. Patrick's Day. I'd like to meet with any of > you who are available and interested for a pint of Guinness at the Parting > Glass (http://www.partingglasspub.com/). I will be there at 5 p.m. Will > likely stay until about 6:30 because I'll have to take my family out to > dinner (I can't have my 3-year-old daughter with me at this rowdy Irish > pub for dinner, you see). Hope to see you there. > > Cheers, > Murphy > > > Shawn W. Murphy > Associate Professor of Journalism > Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points > Chair, Department of Journalism > Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism > 103-A Yokum Hall > SUNY Plattsburgh > 101 Broad St. > Plattsburgh, NY 12901 > 518-564-2422, phone > 518-564-2105, fax > shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live?: Life without walls. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_allup_1a_explore_032009-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/pipermail/journalism-alumni/attachments/20090315/81bf4f66/attachment.htm From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Mon Mar 16 14:19:50 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Mon Mar 16 08:06:14 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] St. Pat's Day with Murphy, Saratoga Springs In-Reply-To: References: <1540.68.191.10.12.1237061748.squirrel@webmail.plattsburgh.edu> Message-ID: Hey Murphy, I can't think of a better way to spend St. Pat's Day. I'll be there around 5:30! Anna To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Subject: RE: [jou-alumni] St. Pat's Day with Murphy, Saratoga Springs Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2009 09:02:31 -0400 From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Mr. Murphy, I will be there unless someone has the nerve to give me an exclusive story minutes before my shift ends and my editors insist that the story must run the next day (although I'll do anything possible to talk my way out of it). Omar > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 16:15:48 -0400 > To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > From: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > Subject: [jou-alumni] St. Pat's Day with Murphy, Saratoga Springs > > To the Cardinal Points' alumni in the Saratoga Springs area (including > Anna Jolly, Shannon MacCue, Todd Kehoe, Omar Aquije, Katie Holscher, and > any others I'm forgetting at the moment): > > I will be in Saratoga Springs with family for a few days this week, > including this Tuesday, St. Patrick's Day. I'd like to meet with any of > you who are available and interested for a pint of Guinness at the Parting > Glass (http://www.partingglasspub.com/). I will be there at 5 p.m. Will > likely stay until about 6:30 because I'll have to take my family out to > dinner (I can't have my 3-year-old daughter with me at this rowdy Irish > pub for dinner, you see). Hope to see you there. > > Cheers, > Murphy > > > Shawn W. Murphy > Associate Professor of Journalism > Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points > Chair, Department of Journalism > Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism > 103-A Yokum Hall > SUNY Plattsburgh > 101 Broad St. > Plattsburgh, NY 12901 > 518-564-2422, phone > 518-564-2105, fax > shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu > > > _______________________________________________ > Journalism-alumni mailing list > Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu > http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni Windows Live?: Keep your life in sync. Check it out. _________________________________________________________________ Express your personality in color! Preview and select themes for Hotmail?. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/LearnMore/personalize.aspx?ocid=TXT_MSGTX_WL_HM_express_032009#colortheme-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/pipermail/journalism-alumni/attachments/20090316/e6fe0f21/attachment.htm From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Mon Mar 16 14:36:04 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Mon Mar 16 12:22:27 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] Message-ID: <5429391a0903161036i560dbcc6u473e34821eb8105c@mail.gmail.com> 2009 State of the News Media is out for anyone interested: http://www.stateofthemedia.org/2009/index.htm --Tony From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Tue Mar 24 13:02:06 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Tue Mar 24 13:47:46 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] redesigned Cardinal Points Web site In-Reply-To: <1998.68.191.10.12.1236995163.squirrel@webmail.plattsburgh.edu> References: <1998.68.191.10.12.1236995163.squirrel@webmail.plattsburgh.edu> Message-ID: <896130.74525.qm@web62104.mail.re1.yahoo.com> The Cardinal Points has come a long way since I worked for the paper ('94-'97). The paper didn't even have a Web site. Kudos to all of you who were involved in the evolution of this award-winning publication! Tracy (Sullivan) Hudak SUNY Plattsburgh Class of 1997 tchudak@yahoo.com ________________________________ From: "journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu" To: journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu Sent: Friday, March 13, 2009 9:46:03 PM Subject: [jou-alumni] redesigned Cardinal Points Web site To check out the redesigned Cardinal Points Web site, go here: http://www.cardinalpointsonline.com/ Shawn W. Murphy Associate Professor of Journalism Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points Chair, Department of Journalism Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism 103-A Yokum Hall SUNY Plattsburgh 101 Broad St. Plattsburgh, NY 12901 518-564-2422, phone 518-564-2105, fax shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu _______________________________________________ Journalism-alumni mailing list Journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/mailman/listinfo/journalism-alumni -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/pipermail/journalism-alumni/attachments/20090324/5cbf7e1c/attachment.htm From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Fri Mar 27 13:26:39 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Fri Mar 27 11:32:24 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] adjunct sought to teach Interactive Journalism Message-ID: <006e01c9aef8$ceb52430$4e7d8e89@plattsburgh.ntds> Alumni, There is a vacancy for someone to teach JOU 360 (Interactive Journalism) this fall because the professor (Stephanie Tripp from the Communication Dept.) just accepted another teaching job in Florida. Please take a look at the announcement below. If you are qualified and interested, please apply. If not, please share this with anyone you know who would be qualified, or suggest where I might drum up applicants. FYI, the ad will start running this week in the Press-Republican, the Burlington Free-Press, Seven Days, and The Gazette in Montreal. Thank you. Shawn W. Murphy Associate Professor of Journalism Faculty Advisor to Cardinal Points Chair, Department of Journalism Co-Director, Center for Communication and Journalism 103-A Yokum Hall SUNY Plattsburgh 101 Broad St. Plattsburgh, NY 12901 518-564-2422, phone 518-564-2105, fax shawn.murphy@plattsburgh.edu Adjunct Faculty, Journalism The vita bank exists to provide a pool of candidates who might be available to fill anticipated positions as needed. Adjunct faculty member needed to teach Interactive Journalism (JOU/CMM 360) in fall 2009 on Thursdays from 6-8:45 p.m. (although day and time might be able to be changed to accommodate your schedule). Course description is as follows: "This course combines technical training in Adobe Flash, an industry standard for delivering multimedia content to the World Wide Web, with instruction in journalism and digital storytelling. Students will learn to plan online multimedia projects; to think as professional communicators in gathering information; to capture still images, audio, and video; and to publish materials they collect in Flash packages designed for the Web." Bachelor's degree required. Master's degree, teaching experience, and journalistic experience preferred. SUNY Plattsburgh is an equal opportunity employer committed to excellence through diversity. Review of applications will continue until positions are filled. Please apply at https://jobs.plattsburgh.edu/applicants/Central?quickFind=50383 and include letter of application, resume, transcripts, three letters of recommendation, and any available teaching evaluations. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/pipermail/journalism-alumni/attachments/20090327/dd43de3e/attachment.htm From journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu Sat Mar 28 20:06:10 2009 From: journalism-alumni at lists.plattsburgh.edu (journalism-alumni@lists.plattsburgh.edu) Date: Sat Mar 28 17:51:43 2009 Subject: [jou-alumni] Write for the Newark Star-Ledger Message-ID: <1060b7ad0903281606q661d815fsd7d02d29326f5b6b@mail.gmail.com> Hey all- I just started a reporting gig in New Jersey and we're hiring another two reporters to cover local news for the Newark Star-Ledger (282,575 daily and 405,175 Sunday). The cliff notes version of what's going on is that the Ledger did buyouts in the fall (45 percent of the newsroom left) and they realized that no one was around to cover local news. So, they called back the former managing editor (he took an earlier buyout) and said to create an independent arm to cover townships and boros. It's being called the New Jersey Local News Service. We have 12 reporters now, another one starting Monday, and they're taking resumes and doing interviews to hire two more. I'm not sure if there are plans to hire more photographers, but if you're interested I'll find out. The current staff has a range of experience; from local papers here to the New York Post. If you want to know more, you can e-mail me (ryan.hutchins@gmail.com) or call (518-469-6007). -Ryan Hutchins -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://lists.plattsburgh.edu/pipermail/journalism-alumni/attachments/20090328/34303e1c/attachment.htm